Question about English vowel diagram

[symaa]

In any case, that would be /ba:t/ or /bart/ if you're rhotic (for the second), not /bɑ:t/ or /bɑrt/.

You'll also note that the official IPA vowel chart places ɑ and ʌ in difference places. And your teachers chart seems to be missing the /a/, which is traditional below the æ. He's apparently using /ɑ/ for /a/, which is fine as long as everyone knows what's going on (and realises that it's not traditional IPA). He still can't transcibe 'cat' as /kɑt/ though, if that's the case.

Here's a proper IPA charthttp://www.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/archive/5/5a/20060825195333!IPA_vowel_chart_2005.png&imgrefurl=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:IPA_vowel_chart_2005.png&h=641&w=797&sz=32&tbnid=6XljW6PUjVOlpM:&tbnh=115&tbnw=143&prev=/search%3Fq%3DIPA%2Bvowel%2Bchart%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=IPA+vowel+chart&hl=en&usg=___Q6RifamIMV7pS7nb-HocbqQDjo=&sa=X&ei=FOTSTa_PDYPOrQeTzKWrCQ&sqi=2&ved=0CD4Q9QEwBg

Okay,Thank you very much, tomorrow I'll ask him If I can.But this chart contains many vowels that I do no know them.
Best wishes

 

[Raymott]

I don't think this is right. [ɑ:] is present in RP in words like "father", "far", "path", "laugh". The sound is apparently not present in AusE, this chart says.

OK, fair enough, you're right. Brits use [ɑ] where I use [a].
Are those other charts IPA? It's not clear from the links. I thought there was only one IPA vowel chart, and you couldn't move symbols around willy nilly. If you can move the symbols around, then obviously I can place [a] where someone else places [ɑ] and Bob's your uncle.
I feel like the whole point of IPA is being corrupted.

He still can't spell 'cat' /kɑt/ ;-) (Unless there's another chart that says he can and that has [ɑ] where [æ] traditionally goes. But wouldn't that be cheating?)

 

[symaa]

I don't think this is right. [ɑ:] is present in RP? in words like "father", "far", "path", "laugh". The sound is apparently not present in AusE, this chart says.

Thanks a lot
I do not understant the words which written with red color.
Regards

 

[konungursvia]

Thanks a lot
I do not understant the words which written with red color.
Regards

RP= "Received pronunciation" or the Queen's English, or Cambridge/Oxford English, or upper-class English.

AusE = Australian English.

 

[symaa]

OK, fair enough, you're right. Brits use [ɑ] where I use [a].
Are those other charts IPA? It's not clear from the links. I thought there was only one IPA vowel chart, and you couldn't move symbols around willy nilly. If you can move the symbols around, then obviously I can place [a] where someone else places [ɑ] and Bob's your uncle.
I feel like the whole point of IPA is being corrupted.

He still can't spell 'cat' /kɑt/ ;-) (Unless there's another chart that says he can and that has [ɑ] where [æ] traditionally goes. But wouldn't that be cheating?)

Thank you very much for your explanation.....:up::up::up:

 

[symaa]

RP= "Received pronunciation" or the Queen's English, or Cambridge/Oxford English, or upper-class English.

AusE = Australian English.

thanks a lot................

 

[symaa]

I do not know how I can thank you, you are very helpful

My appreciation and thankfulness

 

[birdeen's call]

OK, fair enough, you're right. Brits use [ɑ] where I use [a].
Are those other charts IPA? It's not clear from the links. I thought there was only one IPA vowel chart, and you couldn't move symbols around willy nilly. If you can move the symbols around, then obviously I can place [a] where someone else places [ɑ] and Bob's your uncle.

The problem is that [ɑ], or any other of these symbols, can mean different things. I know too little about it to explain it well -- I might mix up the terms. In general, there are diaphonemes, phonemes and allophones (and probably many other difficult words which I don't know). A diaphoneme is a group of sounds that "are considered to be the same by the speakers" even if they pronounce them differently. In the chart, you have a diaphoneme in the leftmost column and then the most common variants (which would be allophones I believe) in different dialects. They're all denoted with the same set of IPA symbols.

 

[birdeen's call]

Thanks a lot
I do not understant the words which written with red color.
Regards

Thank you for asking. It was thoughtless of me to use the abbreviations without explaining.

I will add to konungursvia's explanation that you really should learn about Received Pronunciation if you want to study British pronunciation. It's a very important accent. You might want to skim the Wikipedia article about it: Received Pronunciation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

 

[BobK]

OK, fair enough, you're right. Brits use [ɑ] where I use [a].
Are those other charts IPA? It's not clear from the links. I thought there was only one IPA vowel chart, and you couldn't move symbols around willy nilly. If you can move the symbols around, then obviously I can place [a] where someone else places [ɑ] and Bob's your uncle.
I feel like the whole point of IPA is being corrupted.

...

When transcribing, say German, in which den and denn have distinct vowels, it is necessary to use both e and ɛ. The IPA provides a toolkit, from which a user can choose what's needed in their context. The Principles of the IPA describe 'narrow' and 'broad' transcription, which can vary almost infintely to cope with diaphonemes (this is a word that I just picked up from BC, but it seems to make sense ;-)). So most ELT materials I've seen/used pick just the more familiar symbol (although the RP /e/ is neither [e] nor [ɛ] - it's more open than [e], more close than [ɛ], and more central than either): this gives 'den' (where a fox lives) as /den/.

I don't think this is a corruption. That diagram you posted shows the 'cardinal vowels'; there are conventions that control how the IPA's symbols can be used in any particular context. I don't think symaa should worry overmuch about that diagram; it describes an ideal, which is not perfectly realized in any natural language (though more closely in some than in others).

b

 

[Raymott]

Yes, it doesn't matter what system her teacher uses, but it means that she cannot speak of [a], or indeed any other phonetic symbol without showing the chart. This is what IPA was supposed to facilitate - communication about pronunciation in a textual form.
Her teacher can use [a] for 'cat' as long as he keeps that transcription symbol in the classroom, and as long as his students don't require help from elsewhere.
It's unfortunate and confusing that these other charts use IPA symbols.
I think IPA is far more useful for someone who is merely learning English. A phonetician or phonologist would be more interested in more specific charts.

PS: Anyhow, I'll take a closer look at these brave new charts before I comment further.

 

[birdeen's call]

It's unfortunate and confusing that these other charts use IPA symbols.
I think IPA is far more useful for someone who is merely learning English. A phonetician or phonologist would be more interested in more specific charts.

I agree that it can be very confusing, but I don't think there's an easy way around it. IPA symbols denote mere sounds primarily. Denoting phonemes and other things must be their secondary function, because they are thought to be international and langauge-independent. But it's impossible to make a dictionary entry or to explain English pronunciation to a learner using a merely phonetic transcription. This would be much more confusing, because of the number of variants' configurations. So if we wanted to have different sets of symbols for different notions, we would have to give up the thought of using IPA in dictionaries.

 

[symaa]

Her teacher can use [a] for 'cat' as long as he keeps that transcription symbol in the classroom, and as long as his students don't require help from elsewhere.
.

He transcribe cat like this /kæt /, but he did not give as examples concerning/ɑ/ when we did exercices, also he did not explain in a detailed way .
Anyway thank you very much ,I re-read your replies many times in order to understand very well.:roll:
All the best for you:up:

 

[symaa]

Could you please have a look at this video
YouTube - ‪Part 8 Learning the IPA chart‬‏

 

[birdeen's call]

Could you please have a look at this video
YouTube - ‪Part 8 Learning the IPA chart‬‏

I have watched the video. Do you have any questions? It seems to me that this man is from New Zealand, but I may be wrong.

 

[Raymott]

It seems to me that this man is from New Zealand, but I may be wrong.

I'd say you're right.

 

[symaa]

Firstly, thank you for your continual help.

So,the speaker in this video uses symbols as in this diagram.

-He pronoune the word turn very different, is it beacause he is from New Zealand?

-I wonder if it is right to use /ɑ/ /ɜ/ and /ʊ/ without the colon in the transcription?


NB:It is so difficult to understand an english native speaker, whereas you can understand every single word from a french native speaker.


Thank you in advance.