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    #1

    in order to-so as to

    Hi,

    Can we use them with a pronoun?
    For example,

    -In order you to pass the exam, you must study harder than before.

    -So as you to pass the exam, you must study harder than before.

    or

    -In order for you to pass the exam, you must study harder than before.

    -So as for you to pass the exam, you must study harder than before.

    Which ones must we use?Thanks...

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    #2

    Re: in order to-so as to

    None of the above, IMO, though some would accept the third example.

    'In order to pass the exam, you must study harder. . . .'

    Rover

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    #3

    Re: in order to-so as to

    Thanks..But I think we can use in order for with a pronoun because I have found now a sentence on internet.Of course I can't say that it is correct or not.Could you check it?

    http://www.beyondfear.org/downloads/...ppen.doc1a.pdf


    What needs to happen / not happen in order for you to be
    able to make an appointment?

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    #4

    Re: in order to-so as to

    Quote Originally Posted by aliii View Post
    But I think we can use in order for with a pronoun because I have found now a sentence on internet.Of course I can't say that it is correct or not.Could you check it?



    What needs to happen / not happen in order for you to be
    able to make an appointment?
    *** NOT A TEACHER ***

    In order for your sentence to be correct, the subjects of the two clauses have to be different. (Just like in my example.) In the example you have found, they are different. "What" is not "you".

    As for your previous example, "So as you to pass the exam, you must study harder than before.", it should read, "You must study harder than before so as to pass the exam." (You must study hard, because you have to pass the exam.) You can say, for example, "In order for me to study hard, you have to leave me alone, because I can't focus on my homework while you are around.

    At least this is my understanding of these structures.


    PS: Don't forget to put a space after a punctuation mark.

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    #5

    Re: in order to-so as to

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover_KE View Post
    None of the above, IMO, though some would accept the third example.

    'In order to pass the exam, you must study harder. . . .'

    Rover
    I agree it's better not to repeat the pronoun if it refers to the same person. But when there are two referents involved, I think it's OK: 'In order for me to know what you want, you have to tell me'.

    But those examples in the dentistry book just seem to me unnecessarily wordy; why use 'in order for you to be able to' - why not say 'before you can'?

    b

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    #6

    Re: in order to-so as to

    Quote Originally Posted by ~Mav~ View Post
    *** NOT A TEACHER ***

    In order for your sentence to be correct, the subjects of the two clauses have to be different. (Just like in my example.) In the example you have found, they are different. "What" is not "you".

    As for your previous example, "So as you to pass the exam, you must study harder than before.", it should read, "You must study harder than before so as to pass the exam." (You must study hard, because you have to pass the exam.) You can say, for example, "In order for me to study hard, you have to leave me alone, because I can't focus on my homework while you are around.

    At least this is my understanding of these structures.


    PS: Don't forget to put a space after a punctuation mark.
    Hi, Mav.

    It may be a personal preference and I certainly don't want to impose anything on you, but I find it difficult to read your posts because of what I consider an overuse of colors, underlinings and boldings.

    We certainly have to make some parts of our texts more visible but it's usually enough, in my opinion, to use one or two ways of doing it. When I see that some words are bolded, other bolded and underlined, other bolded and colored (and with different colors), I am put off. When I try to read it, I have to put additional effort into understaning what functions the different kinds of highlighting serve. It's OK if they actually serve different and easily recognizable functions. But in other cases they just make reading more difficult. To me, that is.

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    #7

    Wink Re: in order to-so as to

    [OFF]


    Hi, birdeen's call,

    To me, it's just a matter of style and personal preference. The two different colours marked two different subjects, making it easier (at least that was my intention) to see what I'm referring to. Since you yourself knew the answer to this question, you found this annoyingly unnecessary. Some may find it helpful. Either way, I don't think it's such a biggie.
    I'm glad that this was your only problem with my post.


    Have a nice evening.


    [/OFF]

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    #8

    Re: in order to-so as to

    Quote Originally Posted by ~Mav~ View Post
    Hi, birdeen's call,

    To me, it's just a matter of style and personal preference. The two different colours marked two different subjects, making it easier (at least that was my intention) to see what I'm referring to. Since you yourself knew the answer to this question, you found this annoyingly unnecessary. Some may find it helpful. Either way, I don't think it's such a biggie.
    I'm glad that this was your only problem with my post.


    Have a nice evening.
    Thank you for your response. I'm glad you didn't find my post offensive. I was afraid you might.

    As I said, I don't mind highlighting parts of a text. It's complication and/or opacity and/or inconsistency in highlighting that irks me. I don't mean that your way has all these qualities. I simple often find it impenetrable. Perhaps I'm the only one that does, of course.

    Have a very good evening too.

    PS: The word "highlighting" looks funny, doesn't it?

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    #9

    Re: in order to-so as to

    [OFF]


    Quote Originally Posted by birdeen's call View Post
    Thank you for your response. I'm glad you didn't find my post offensive. I was afraid you might.
    I didn't, because, judging by your post, you are a very intelligent and polite person, and I had no reason to assume that you meant to offend me.

    Quote Originally Posted by birdeen's call View Post
    It's complication and/or opacity and/or inconsistency in highlighting that irks me.
    I admit that my choices of colour might have been better. (Or I shouldn't have used any.)
    In my defence, I have poor eyesight, and maybe that's what makes me think that the bolder (no ambiguity intended ) the better.


    Cheerio!


    [/OFF]

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    #10

    Re: in order to-so as to

    Can't we use it like that?

    In order me to study hard, you have to leave me alone,

    So as for me to study hard, you have to leave me alone,

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