[Grammar] Comma – connecting ideas.

[Auldlangsyne]

I have been putting in commas and taking them out the whole morning writing this. I wonder if someone could go through the text. I understand it needs someone having the patience of a saint to check this somewhat long text but I would like to be done with the rules and then save it as a reference for the future once it’s been corrected.
All comments will be greatly appreciated.


It’s a common knowledge that comma points out where to stop for a brief pause/when to take a breath. Piece of cake? I am not so sure. Easier said than done; I would say but here we go:

· Separates three or more items in a sentence:

ü I will have sandwich, crisps, pop, cookie, apple pie and cream.

In AmE, however, the above sentence would most likely have so called the Oxford Comma inserted before the final conjunction.

The Oxford Comma can appear also in the BrE, if there is a risk of merging the last two items. In that case for the sake of clarity, comma can be put before the final word end. Apple pie, and cream are not considered here as a single item:

ü I will have sandwich, crisps, pop, cookie, apple pie, and cream.

ü When we want to use certain adjectives (so called coordinate adjectives), which can be exchanged with each other without any change of the meaning of a sentence. How will we know for sure if they are coordinate? By inversion of the nouns in a sentence. If the meaning remains the same - they are. We can also insert an and between them and check the meaning:

ü Nice, well-maintained garden.

ü Well-maintained, nice garden.

· To separate two independent clauses with conjunctions such as and, or, so, yet, for, nor, but, or when the sentence starts with a dependant clause:

ü I saw herbeautiful garden, and I could not believe she designed it herself.

ü When I finally arrived at my destination, it was a relief.

ü In case of emergency, use blankets.

ü Comma before end can connect two nouns in a compound subject, therefore does not need to be placed before the mentioned end (the same applies to putting a comma between two verbs):

ü My mother and her friend want to visit Michael and his wife.

· We put a comma before the conjunction because; only to avoid confusion.

· After words used to introduce a phrase, like yes/no, furthermore, well, meanwhile, hello, unfortunately, now, and after longer introductory parts of asentence:

ü Given my input to the discussion, the problem should be sorted out.

ü Yes, you are right.

ü He said,“I will always remember that”.

· When we want to incorporate quotations (quotation must start with a capital letter). We omit commas, if quotations are preceded by the word that. If a quote is very long, and serves to explain something, colon should be used, and not the comma.

· They expressed their opinion that “it was inevitable”.

· To set off names and expressions, around Interrupters, such as by the way, however, indeed, needless to say (names also belong to that group):
Would you be kind enough, Michael, to do it for me? You do not have to, however, thatwould be nice.

· To separate the day of the month from the year (no comma needed if there is no day). We also need the comma after the year; when we are more precise and provide the reader with the exact time:

ü Septemberthe 1[SUP]st[/SUP], 1927.

ü Septemberthe 1[SUP]st[/SUP], 1927, at 7am.

· When we directly address a person having a tittle:

ü Yes, Doctor, I will follow your advice.

· To enclose titles or degrees with names:

ü J.Harward, MP. , has just arrived.

· To separate a question from a statement:

ü I can go now, can’t I?

· We use comma after abbreviations, such as e.g., i.e., etc., and before namely.

· We insert a comma to add some extra information (aside elements), which do not form essential part of the whole sentence.

ü Everyone, that is a common knowledge, loves his films.

· To express contrasts:

ü At the crack of dawn most people wake up, not go to bed.

ü It was all about their personalities, not their neighbours.

· To avoid/remove ambiguity:

ü Toast, and bacon, and eggs.

ü Fancy salad, garlic, bread, and turkey?

· In long numbers:

ü 1,253,728.

· Between repeated word. That will make it clear; that you did it on purpose:

ü We really, really love outings.

ü Before but we put comma only if it starts an independent clause.

ü They want to venture into new markets, but the boss is not available at the moment to give them the thumbs up.

 

[Tarheel]

I had finished the whole thing, and then it got lost when I had to log in again. :-(

I have been putting in commas and taking them out the whole morning writing this. I wonder if someone could go through the text. I understand it needs someone having the patience of a saint to check this somewhat long text, but I would like to be done with the rules and then save it as a reference for the future once it’s been corrected.
All comments will be greatly appreciated.


It’s [STRIKE]a[/STRIKE] common knowledge that comma points out where to stop for a brief pause/when to take a breath. Piece of cake? I am not so sure. Easier said than done, I would say, but here we go:

The expression is "It's common knowledge", not "it's a common knowledge".

 

[Tarheel]

I have been putting in commas and taking them out the whole morning writing this. I wonder if someone could go through the text. I understand it needs someone having the patience of a saint to check this somewhat long text but I would like to be done with the rules and then save it as a reference for the future once it’s been corrected.
All comments will be greatly appreciated.


It’s a common knowledge that comma points out where to stop for a brief pause/when to take a breath. Piece of cake? I am not so sure. Easier said than done; I would say but here we go:

· Separates three or more items in a sentence:

ü I will have a sandwich, crisps, pop, cookie, apple pie and cream.

In AmE, however, the above sentence would most likely have a so-called the Oxford Comma inserted before the final conjunction.

The Oxford Comma can appear also in the BrE, if there is a risk of merging the last two items. In that case, for the sake of clarity, the comma can be put before the final word end. Apple pie, and cream are not considered here as a single item:

Got to go!

 

[TheParser]

Easier said than done; I would say but here we go:

***** NOT A TEACHER *****


Hello,

I would feel more comfortable with:

Easier said than done, I would say, but here we go:


"I would say" seems to be one of those "asides" that you mention.


James

P.S. I would also use another example sentence in place of "He smells, f-rts, and burps." Even in 2014, the F-word is very vulgar.

 

[Auldlangsyne]

I had finished the whole thing, and then it got lost when I had to log in again. :-(

I am so sorry. Thank you very much for your time. I will scrutinize what's left.

Thanks for all the corrections and remarks.

 

[Tarheel]

You are right. It is kind of long. ;-)

In AmE, however, the above sentence would most likely have so called the Oxford Comma inserted before the final conjunction.

The Oxford Comma can appear also in [STRIKE]the[/STRIKE] BrE if there is a risk of merging the last two items. In that case, for the sake of clarity, a comma can be put before the final word end. Apple pie, and cream are not considered here as a single item:

ü I will have a sandwich, crisps, pop, cookie, apple pie, and cream.

Start it thusly:

Use a comma to

​

 

[Tarheel]

I am going to charge more for doing this. ;-) (It is certainly true that opinions vary as to what is considered vulgar. What one person regards as funny another might consider obscene.)

The Oxford Comma can appear also in BrE, if there is a risk of merging the last two items. In that case, for the sake of clarity, a comma can be put before the final word end. Apple pie, and cream are not considered here as a single item:

ü I will have a sandwich, crisps, pop, cookie, apple pie, and cream.

üWe use a comma when we want to use certain adjectives (so called coordinate adjectives) which can be exchanged with each other without any change of the meaning of a sentence. How will we know for sure if they are coordinate? By inversion of the nouns in a sentence. If the meaning remains the same - they are. (The farther away related items get from each other the more chance there is for confusion. I would spell out what you mean there rather than assume that the reader will understand.) We can also insert an and between them and check the meaning:

ü Nice, well-maintained garden.

ü Well-maintained, nice garden.
(Will all your readers understand that the first one is good English, but the second one is not?) (Say: "a nice, well-maintained garden")

· To separate two independent clauses with conjunctions such as and, or, so, yet, for, nor, but, or when the sentence starts with a dependant clause:

ü I saw herbeautiful garden, and I could not believe she designed it herself.

ü When I finally arrived at my destination, it was a relief.

ü In case of emergency, use blankets.

 

[Tarheel]

· To separate two independent clauses with conjunctions such as and, or, so, yet, for, nor, but, or when the sentence starts with a dependant clause:



ü My mother and her friend want to visit Michael and his wife. (That's an interesting sentence here.)

· We put a comma before the conjunction because only to avoid confusion.

· After words used to introduce a phrase, like yes/no, furthermore, well, meanwhile, hello, unfortunately, now, and after longer introductory parts of asentence:

ü Given my input to the discussion, the problem should be sorted out.

ü Yes, you are right.

ü He said,“I will always remember that”.

· When we want to incorporate quotations (quotation must start with a capital letter). We omit commas, if quotations are preceded by the word that. If a quote is very long, and serves to explain something, a colon should be used, and not a comma.

· They expressed their opinion that “it was inevitable”.

· To set off names and expressions, around interrupters such as by the way, however, indeed, needless to say (names also belong to that group):
Would you be kind enough, Michael, to do it for me? You do not have to, however, that would be nice.

· To separate the day of the month from the year (no comma needed if there is no day). We also need the comma after the year when we are more precise and provide the reader with the exact time:

ü September the 1[SUP]st[/SUP], 1927.

üSeptember the 1[SUP]st[/SUP], 1927, at 7am.

· When we directly address a person having a title:

ü Yes, Doctor, I will follow your advice.

· To enclose titles or degrees with names:

ü J.Harward, MP. , has just arrived.

· To separate a question from a statement:

ü I can go now, can’t I?

· We use a comma after abbreviations, such as e.g., i.e., etc., and before namely.

· We insert a comma to add some extra information (aside elements), which does not form an essential part of the [STRIKE]whole[/STRIKE] sentence.

ü Everyone, that is a common knowledge, loves his films.

We don't say a common knowledge. Instead, we might say: "It is common knowledge that everyone loves his films. (I suggest that you use a different sample sentence.)

 

[Tarheel]

· When we want to incorporate quotations (quotation must start with a capital letter). We omit commas, if quotations are preceded by the word that. If a quote is very long, and serves to explain something, a colon should be used, and not a comma.

· They expressed their opinion that “it was inevitable”.

· To set off names and expressions, around interrupters, such as by the way, however, indeed, needless to say (names also belong to that group):
Would you be kind enough, Michael, to do it for me? You do not have to, however, thatwould be nice.

· To separate the day of the month from the year (no comma needed if there is no day). We also need the comma after the year; when we are more precise and provide the reader with the exact time:

ü Septemberthe 1[SUP]st[/SUP], 1927.

ü Septemberthe 1[SUP]st[/SUP], 1927, at 7am.

· When we directly address a person having a title:

ü Yes, Doctor, I will follow your advice.

· To enclose titles or degrees with names:

ü J.Harward, MP. , has just arrived.

· To separate a question from a statement:

ü I can go now, can’t I?

· We use a comma after abbreviations, such as e.g., i.e., etc., and before namely.

· We insert a comma to add some extra information (aside elements), which does not form an essential part of the [STRIKE]whole[/STRIKE] sentence.

ü Everyone, except for those who don't, loves his films.

· To express contrasts:

ü At the crack of dawn most people wake up, not go to bed.

ü It was all about their personalities, not their neighbours.

· To avoid/remove ambiguity:

ü Toast, and bacon, and eggs.

ü Fancy salad, garlic, bread, and turkey?

· In long numbers:

ü 1,253,728.

· Between repeated words. That will make it clear that you did it on purpose:

ü We really, really love outings.

ü Before but we put comma only if it starts an independent clause.

ü They want to venture into new markets, but the boss is not available at the moment to give them the thumbs up.

Finished!

:up:

 

[Rover_KE]

 

[Auldlangsyne]

I wasn’t expecting that. I'm at a loss for words. It was most kind of you.

Thank you very, very much.

It will be a starting point to understanding the rules, and it will definitely keep me busy for a while.

As to the f-t word, I would never use it in a conversation (well, maybe, once in a blue moon, when talking half-jokingly to very close friends), but I cross my heart that I was unaware it could have such a very vulgar overtone. That is certainly good to know.

By the way, do you know what sign you will see when leaving motorway services in Germany? A very similar writing which spontaneously puts a smile on my face “Gute Fahrt”.

Much obliged for taking the time and trouble to correct the whole text.

A.

 

[Tarheel]

Well, you're welcome. (This is sort of my job that I don't get paid for.)

:up:

 

[Auldlangsyne]

I cannot pay, unfortunately, but I can return the favour with an absolutely amazing performance of “La campanella”. I have heard many interpretations of this piece, but this one is unquestionably astonishing:

Nobuyuki Tsujii - La Campanella - BBC Proms 2013 　


Just one more question:

Original sentence:
· We insert a comma to add some extra information (aside elements), which do not form essential part of the whole sentence.
Corrected sentence:
· We insert a comma to add some extra information (aside elements), which does not form an essential part of the sentence.

In my original sentence I meant plural form of the word information (facts, aside elements), reflected by using “s” in the brackets. If I did not use “some extra”, would that be alright to leave do not form?
· We insert a comma to add information (aside elements), which do not form an essential part of the sentence.

 

[Tarheel]

Information ... does....

The word information is always construed as singular. (Trust me on this one.)

TAFN

 

[Rover_KE]

I cannot pay, unfortunately, but I can return the favour with an absolutely amazing performance of “La campanella”. I have heard many interpretations of this piece, but this one is unquestionably astonishing:

Nobuyuki Tsujii - La Campanella - BBC Proms 2013 　

Thanks for that link, Auldlangsyne. It really is a remarkable performance, especially as he was born blind and learns everything by ear.

 

[Tarheel]

I'm sure I would get yelled at if I would play that here in the leasing office. (But I wish I could.) Can you do anything for aching backs? (Just kidding.)

 

[Auldlangsyne]

I'm sure I would get yelled at if I would play that here in the leasing office. (But I wish I could.) Can you do anything for aching backs? (Just kidding.)

Well, there are different types of back pain, and some of them require doctor’s attention (but you certainly know that) thus I'm afraid that I am not at liberty to discuss these matters. All I can say is, that arranging your work place might help, e.g., by getting yourself an ergonomic chair to reduce strain to your muscles. Working in an office sometimes promotes poor posture, which can lead to a back pain, and not only.

If you would get yelled at, playing such a wonderful tune, I don’t even want to think what your colleagues would say seeing you doing floor exercises.

Having said that, I have to admit that I was wrong thinking, that by just gathering the rules of the use of a comma will guide me through the difficulties of the English language. There is more to the picture, like intonation, understanding of a sentence structure (subject, verb..) and more.
I can express myself pretty easily during any conversation, in fact I am a rather talkative person, but when it comes to use of a comma, and definite/indefinite articles it is a matter of years of hard graft, I reckon, perceptual skills, intuition perhaps. I have read a lot of books over years, and I should have known how to use the above by now, but for some reason it is still a wishful thinking. It may not cause back pain, but it really is a pain when you want to write a sentence which is grammatically correct, you think you know the rules and you cannot.

Whether it is a dyslexia thing or not - kingdom for a horse!

 

[Tarheel]

Wow! (Okay, where do I go from there?) Actually, my colleagues are Tdol, MikeNewYork, Red5, etc. And I have no special skills, but I am an obsessive-compusive proofreader. ;-)

I do my "work" here in the leasing office of the apartment complex where I live. (It is work, but it's volunteer work.)

(My back is feeling better. Thanks.)

:up:

 

[Auldlangsyne]

Wow! (Okay, where do I go from there?) Actually, my colleagues are Tdol, MikeNewYork, Red5, etc. And I have no special skills, but I am an obsessive-compusive proofreader. ;-)

I do my "work" here in the leasing office of the apartment complex where I live. (It is work, but it's volunteer work.)

(My back is feeling better. Thanks.)

:up:

Ha, you possess the expert knowledge, you help to develop good standards, and yet you claim to have no special skills? You are just being modest. I do not know where it will get you from there, but remember who, out of the blue - uninvited, knocked on the Lionel Louge’s door, Lionel of Harley street, the speech therapist, this is.

Voluntary work is rewarding, even if it sometimes is part of the job (I draw from my own experience). "The value of a man resides in what he gives and not in what he is capable receiving." - Albert Einstein. And that is exactly, what we – learners get here, free advice on all sorts of issues, advice so precious, that if you were to charge for that, I am sure it would be not in pounds, but in guineas.

Given, who your friends are, I am not going to suggest that you should have some fun at work, I don’t want to be banned , and that “etc..”can mean even more influential figures, which is even more frightening .

I did some research, and I found that proofreader’s job is not only about punctuation, but how complex it is to deal with amendments and solving problems. (I don’t know why, but my computer forces me to replace “proofreader” with “proof-reader”.)

It has crossed my mind to undertake a course in proofreading, but then I realized it requires firm grasp of language, among other qualities. On top of that I am a slow reader, which makes things even worse. It is definitely not for me, however, through the search I have found some interesting material, which was beneficial.

Even though I have failed to master grammar rules over the last years, I do not give up - there's no rest for the wicked.

 

[Tarheel]

Well, I did have an actual job as a proofreader once. (It didn't pay anything, but it was definitely a real job. (It was for a free monthly.)) My bosses were too lazy to make sure I proofed the whole thing, so the part I didn't proof was pretty shitty. ;-) (I think being obsessive-compulsive is an asset when it comes to proofreading.) The obsessive-compulsive part of my personality helped with that job, and it helps here too.