£10 including train fare.

[TrevorWebb]

Me and a friend have had a disagreement and we are hoping you lovely people can help decide who is right.

I have attached a screenshot to help...

To put this in context, we were discussing a fee for Rory to clean Trevor's house. The first offer, as you can see was £5 plus the train fair to get home (which in this case was £4). The 2nd offer was £10 including train fair. This offer was accepted and it was not until after the cleaning that we realised we had crossed wires.

He was of the opinion that '£10 including train fair' meant £10 plus £4 for train fair (£14 total), whereas, when writing it, I intended for it to mean £10 total (£6 plus £4 train fair).

Who is right here?

Any help or opinions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Trevor

 

[jutfrank]

You are right, he's wrong. He's misunderstanding the meaning of 'including'. It means 'which includes'.

 

[GoesStation]

You're not an English learner and didn't ask for help, but it's the habit here to point out bits of posts which could be improved. In that spirit, may I suggest that you write A friend and I have had a disagreement ?

 

[emsr2d2]

[STRIKE]Me and[/STRIKE] A friend and I have had a disagreement and we are hoping you lovely people can help decide who is right.

I have attached a screenshot to help.

(This doesn't work.)

To put this in context, we were discussing a fee for Rory to clean Trevor's house. The first offer, as you can see, was £5 plus the train [STRIKE]fair[/STRIKE] fare to get home (which in this case was £4). The 2nd offer was £10 including train [STRIKE]fair[/STRIKE] fare. This offer was accepted and it was not until after the cleaning that we realised we had crossed wires.

He was of the opinion that '£10 including train [STRIKE]fair[/STRIKE] fare' meant £10 plus £4 for train [STRIKE]fair[/STRIKE] fare (£14 total), whereas, when writing it, I intended for it to mean £10 total (£6 plus £4 train [STRIKE]fair[/STRIKE] fare).

Who is right here?

Any help or opinions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks. Trevor

Please note my amendments above. I realise you are a native English speaker but that doesn't mean you don't make any mistakes (we all do!)

- As GoesStation already pointed out, "My friend and I" is grammatically correct but "Me and a friend" isn't.
- You spelt "fare" correctly in your title but then spelt it "fair" every time you wrote it in your post.
- You missed the closing comma after "as you can see".
- You used a comma instead of a full stop in the final line. "Thanks, Trevor" is what you say (write) to someone called Trevor when you are thanking him. "Thanks" is a standalone sentence in your post so should end with a full stop.

I wouldn't expect any native speaker to misunderstand "£10 including train fare" so I'm surprised this problem occurred.

 

[Tdol]

You are right, he's wrong. He's misunderstanding the meaning of 'including'. It means 'which includes'.

And misunderstanding sounds awfully like trying it on to me here- it's hard to see how a native speaker would arrive at the conclusion that including means not including.

 

[TrevorWebb]

Thank you all for your replies. I will take your grammar correction on board.

My friend and I are still disagreeing over this. So, I am going to upload the screenshot of the actual conversation. Hopefully this will put it all into correct context.

Also, a couple of the replies have said things like 'I do not see how anyone can misunderstand that,' but do not state the correct meaning. For the sake of this question, please treat us as complete novices and tell us clearly who you believe to be correct.

To recap, Trevor believes the offer was £10.00 total. Rory believes the offer was for £10.00 plus the £4.00 train fare on top.

Here is the screenshot...

<a href="http://s1138.photobucket.com/user/Zombie_Trev/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsxa3c5apr.png.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/n530/Zombie_Trev/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsxa3c5apr.png" border="0" alt=" photo image_zpsxa3c5apr.png"/></a>

 

[bhaisahab]

"£10 including train fare" means what it says, the £10 includes the train fare. In other words, you do the job, you get £10, you pay your own train fare.

 

[emsr2d2]

Your screenshot doesn't work. You'll have to type it out in full, I'm afraid.

 

[Barb_D]

http://s1138.photobucket.com/user/Zombie_Trev/media/Mobile Uploads/image_zpsxa3c5apr.png.html

You first offer 5 plus train.
Then you offer 10 including train.
There is no room for misunderstanding.
If the train fare is 4, then you only increased your offer by 1, but he accepted and that's that.

Still hardly worth losing a friend over. Give him the 5 and then never, ever make a business deal with him again.

 

[jutfrank]

Unfortunately, I can't access your link. However, I don't believe we need any more context.

Can you say what Rory's argument actually is? If he's arguing over the meaning of "£10 including train fare", then he's going to have a very hard time!

 

[emsr2d2]

Ignoring the usual "textspeak"" errors, your statement "£10 including train fare is max price I'd pay" is perfectly understandable. I fail to see any way that Rory could have misunderstood. He's having you on. Even taking into account spelling errors and predictive text errors, I have no clue what Rory's text "not raley cando awaying with a fiver" was supposed to mean.

 

[jutfrank]

Poor Rory. I think he genuinely took "including" to mean not including. Or he got distracted by the earlier use of "£5 plus train fare."

 

[Rory Saunders]

hello all im the Rory that Trevor is on about here is the screen shot that he was trying to post



https://www.dropbox.com/s/6tgr395i6lufxbs/12992981_10156807529765367_828459088_n.jpg?dl=0


ok here are some factors and reasons why i think i didn't misunderstand

1. i have cleaned for him in the past and he has tried to offer me just a 10er b4 but i said no so he payed for the train fair on top of the 10 pound

2. if you look at how he has said it 1st the 5 pound plus the fair and then changed the wording so one would expect a better offer but really its the same offer and my argument is that he should have put it the same as last time what would have been 6 plus 4 pound train fare


it's not the fact that is 4 pound its the fact that i feel robbed and screwed over by him offering the same offer ok a pound more but i have toke to posting the same screenshot on my Facebook wall and over half agree with me the way it was put was badly on his side maybe maybe i am wrong and using the wrong words all my life like this (example) hi Trevor can you go to the shop for me and pick me up a pint of milk ill pay pound INCLUDING your fuel.


P.S if anything is spelt wrong etc i have disleksia

 

[emsr2d2]

If it weren't for the fact that he said "£10 including train fare", I'd understand your confusion. Had it said "£10 is max price I'd pay", you could argue that the £10 was a replacement for the £5 in the previous message which was, indeed, plus train fare. However, he made it very clear that the £10 included the train fare. I'm afraid that you (and the 50% of people on your Facebook page) are quite simply wrong in this case.

If you work for other people on a regular basis, you need to sort out your own prices and make it very clear what those prices include. In a business arrangement, there should be no room for misunderstanding.

 

[emsr2d2]

Hello all. I'm the Rory that Trevor is on about. Here is the screen shot that he was trying to post.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6tgr395i6lufxbs/12992981_10156807529765367_828459088_n.jpg?dl=0

OK, here are some factors and reasons why I think I didn't misunderstand.

1. I have cleaned for him in the past and he has tried to offer me just a [STRIKE]10er[/STRIKE] tenner [STRIKE]b4[/STRIKE] before but I said no so he [STRIKE]payed[/STRIKE] paid for the train [STRIKE]fair[/STRIKE] fare on top of the 10 pounds.

2. If you look at how he has said it [STRIKE]1st[/STRIKE] first, [STRIKE]the[/STRIKE] 5 pounds plus the [STRIKE]fair[/STRIKE] fare, and then changed the wording so one would expect a better offer but really it's the same offer and my argument is that he should have put it the same way as the last time, [STRIKE]what[/STRIKE] which would have been 6 pounds plus 4 pounds train fare.

It's not the fact that it is 4 pound. It's the fact that I feel robbed and screwed over by him offering the same offer- [STRIKE]ok[/STRIKE] OK, a pound more - but I have [STRIKE]toke to posting[/STRIKE] posted the same screenshot on my Facebook wall and over half agree with me that [STRIKE]the way[/STRIKE] it was badly put [STRIKE]was badly[/STRIKE] on his side. Maybe [STRIKE]maybe[/STRIKE] I am wrong and have been wrongly [STRIKE]using the wrong words all my life[/STRIKE] things like this [STRIKE](example)[/STRIKE] all my life: "Hi Trevor. Can you go to the shop for me and pick me up a pint of milk. I'll pay you one pound INCLUDING your fuel."


P.S If anything is spelt wrong, [STRIKE]etc[/STRIKE] it's because I have [STRIKE]disleksia [/STRIKE] dyslexia.

Rory, please be aware that the corrections I have made above are not aimed at you. If you have serious dyslexia, then these errors are, to a certain extent, unavoidable. However, this forum is designed to teach English learners how to write/speak correct English so it's important for them that they see how your post should have looked. Without these corrections, there is a danger that some learners will see that you are a native English speaker and assume that everything you write is correct. It is incumbent upon us to disabuse them of that notion.

With regard to your final point, "I'll pay you a pound including your fuel" means "I will pay you a total of one pound. I expect that to cover the cost of the milk and your fuel". If you were offering to pay for the milk and also for the fuel, you would need to say "I'll pay you a pound plus your fuel".

 

[jutfrank]

Hi Rory

I completely understand that you feel robbed. Do you think Trevor was trying deliberately to pull one over or did he really believe that you thought you were offering to clean for six quid?

I think that if neither of you are/were trying to rip the other one off then you should split the £5 difference, i.e. Trevor gives Rory another £2.50 and you settle it like that. Trevor can't really complain because it's only £2.50 and you two are mates after all - it's not exactly a business contract.

Failing that you could go on Judge Rinder. ;-)

 

[bhaisahab]

Rory, £10 including train fare of £4 to clean a flat is close to slave labour wages anyway. I wouldn't do it if I were you.

 

[Tdol]

1. i have cleaned for him in the past and he has tried to offer me just a 10er b4 but i said no so he payed for the train fair on top of the 10 pound

This point does change things- if the train fare has been paid before, then I can see why someone would expect it to be paid again. The wording doesn't suggest that the train fare should be paid, but the previous behaviour does. If this is the case, then it is no longer a simple discussion about the meaning of a word for me. The person changing the conditions should make it clear that the agreement is changing.

 

[Tdol]

Indeed we are. :up:

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

. . . For the sake of this question, please treat us as complete novices and tell us clearly who you believe to be correct. . . .

Everyone is saying that you are right and Trevor is wrong!

Trevor knows the difference between "included" and "not included." What does he think "Batteries not included" means?