a or the?

[euncu]

The carrot is good for you. Here the carrot represents all the carrots.

So, you say that a carrot is an invention? :-D

 

[nado92]

So, you say that a carrot is an invention? :-D

I never said so. The computer is an invention. It is a rule,my dear.

:roll:

The carrot is good for you. Here the carrot represents all the carrots.

 

[kfredson]

This is from the same link;

3. We use no article when we are talking about people or things in general.

Carrots are good for you. -- carrots in general
English people drink a lot of tea. -- English people in general


And, it seems to confirm my reasoning. (However, the examples given are plural. I don't know whether it denotes a rule or not)

Perhaps I am misunderstanding the thread. I had thought we had been speaking about the singular form of a word, rather than the plural. In the singular form of a word, an article is necessary when dealing with a thing, that is, some object in the world.

When dealing with the plural form, it is a completely different thing. Then carrots can stand on its own, without an article. The singular form of carrot, however, requires an article.

My apologies if I wasn't following the thread properly.

 

[euncu]

Perhaps I am misunderstanding the thread. I had thought we had been speaking about the singular form of a word, rather than the plural. In the singular form of a word, an article is necessary when dealing with a thing, that is, some object in the world.

When dealing with the plural form, it is a completely different thing. Then carrots can stand on its own, without an article. The singular form of carrot, however, requires an article.

My apologies if I wasn't following the thread properly.

No, actually what made the thread look like gone astray is the use of the definite article when it is used in order to make a singular word represent its plural.

So, in a nut-shell, you all say that ;

1 - The computer has changed the way we work ---> correct
2 - Computers have changed the way we work ---> correct
3- Computer has changed the way we work ---> incorrect

I was initially thinking that 2 and 3 was correct. Now, it's turned out that 1 and 2 should be correct.

 

[Barb_D]

No, actually what made the thread look like gone astray is the use of the definite article when it is used in order to make a singular word represent its plural.

So, in a nut-shell, you all say that ;

1 - The computer has changed the way we work ---> correct
2 - Computers have changed the way we work ---> correct
3- Computer has changed the way we work ---> incorrect

I was initially thinking that 2 and 3 was correct. Now, it's turned out that 1 and 2 should be correct.

You left out "A computer has changed the way we work" which CAN be right, but it would be a specific group of people talking about the way their specific work changed this the introduction of a singular computer. If you ever watch the old movie "Desk Set" with Katharine Hepburn, you'll see a group of ladies who could say that.

 

[Nightmare85]

I cannot really understand it.
We are neither talking about a specific computer nor refering to a specific computer.
Personally, I would never say "The computer has changed the way we work."
(In German yes, in English never.)
Same as:
"The car has changed the way we work."
"The apple is healthy for humans."

In all these examples I would use plural.
"Computers have changed..."
"Cars have changed..."
"Apples are healthy..."

Since I'm German it also hurts to say:
"Computer has changed the way we work."
If if it would be correct (I'm surprised it's wrong) I would not say it either.

**Neither a teacher nor a native speaker.**

Cheers!

 

[albertino]

So, you say that a carrot is an invention? :-D

(Not a teacher)
To express generalisation or the representative of a group/class, we normally use the definite article, rather than plural form, before:
(1) animals and plants, e.g. the tiger, the basil, etc.
(2) technological inventions, e.g. the computer, the telephone, the internet, the web, the airbus, etc.

 

[isedehi]

I'm surprised by the native-speakers' answers. I'd say "computers" or no article. Do you the native-speakers put the definite article to make it plural? Otherwise, it'll be very confusing for me because I really don't get how to infer that "the computer" means "The idea of computers." as Barb suggested.

I agree with you. I also think that the word "computer" could semantically mean "technology". I believe no article is needed.

 

[Barb_D]

I agree with you. I also think that the word "computer" could semantically mean "technology". I believe no article is needed.

Sorry, but if you want to use the singular word "computer" you DO need an article.

Computer has... is simply incorrect.

 

[Nightmare85]

But does it mean:
Car has..
Apple has...
Man has...

Would be incorrect too?

Cheers!

 

[Abstract Idea]

Huh. Well, we grew up saying "The king of the jungle" or "The king of the beasts." Probably because kids can't spell serengeti.

Yeah, articles totally suck.

What's 'serengeti'?

In my opinion, the hardest things to learn about English are articles, prepositions, and the word "would."

I'll write this quotation on the board in the beginning of all my ESL classes.
And I think I'll adopt it as a motto to begin answering any of my students questions.
Don't worry, I'll give you the credits.

I read something recently that said that sometimes, the use of articles will be the only clue that something was written by a non-native speaker. It's probably true.

Hey guys, that's the point we should concentrate our efforts on!!
We'll soon turn it into a false statement Barb_D.

 

[Tepal]

I'm pretty sure you use "a" for any computer. If you are referring to a specific computer, use "the". ;-)

Examples:
Give me a computer. (this could be any computer)
Give me the computer. (a specific computer)

 

[Abstract Idea]

I know this is just a simplistic situation compared to the current discussion, but I'll post it here in case it helps anyone.

When students asked me about the difference between "the" and "a" I often came up with this example: In a certain room there are nine black chairs and one white chair.
The teacher may tell a coming student either:

- Please come in, pick up a black chair and have a seat.
- Which one?
- Anyone you wish, but not that white one.

or

- Please come in, pick up the white chair and have a seat.
- Which one?
- That white one over there.

 

[Barb_D]

But does it mean:
Car has.. -- No
Apple has... -- No, unless you are referring to the company that makes the iPhone, etc.
Man has... -- Yes, but "Man" is a special case, referring to the uncountable noun "Mankind."


Cheers!

If you have a countable noun, like car, apple, computer, etc., you need an article or the plural. Simply starting the sentence with the noun in the singular and without an article will not work.

 

[Barb_D]

I know this is just a simplistic situation compared to the current discussion, but I'll post it here in case it helps anyone.

When students asked me about the difference between "the" and "a" I often came up with this example: In a certain room there are nine black chairs and one white chair.
The teacher may tell a coming student either:

- Please come in, pick up a black chair and have a sit.
- Which one?
- Anyone you wish, but not that white one.

or

- Please come in, pick up the white chair and have a sit.
- Which one?
- That white one over there.

With your second one, I'd be more likely to say "The only white chair you see!" But then, I don't have much patience. It's one of the reasons I'd be a terrible teacher!

(PS - "Have a seat" not "have a sit.")

 

[billmcd]

I'm surprised by the native-speakers' answers. I'd say "computers" or no article. Do you the native-speakers put the definite article to make it plural? Otherwise, it'll be very confusing for me because I really don't get how to infer that "the computer" means "The idea of computers." as Barb suggested.

I think "the" is correct because in the context presented, it refers to "computer" as a specific technology, just as I would say "the microwave has changed the way we cook". But I also agree that "computers" could be used.

 

[albertino]

With your second one, I'd be more likely to say "The only white chair you see!" But then, I don't have much patience. It's one of the reasons I'd be a terrible teacher!

(PS - "Have a seat" not "have a sit.")

Within the "limited situation" (here "inside a room"), the speaker and the listener both have a shared knowledge of which white chair is when there is only one white chair among the others(brown, black, etc.) inside the room. So we use the definite article. Of course, if there is more than one white chair, we will use an indefinite article (any of the white chairs), as the listener might not be sure of what the white chair the speaker really meant.

(Not a teacher)