(A/The) amount of (the) work

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Alexey86

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Hello! I'd like to figure out how to use articles in 'amount of something'. Let's consider several examples:

1) It's hard to estimate (zero/an/the) amount of (zero/the) work he can do.
2) It's hard to estimate (zero/an/the) amount of (zero/the) work he did yesterday.
3) (Zero/An/The) amount of (zero/the) work he did yesterday is enormous.


What combinations of articles are possible/make sense in each example?
 
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First, please tell us what you think the best options are.
 
Use the amount of work in all three cases.

You need to use the because the sentences include a defining relative clause.

You need a zero article before work because of the general sense of the word. This is work in general. It's the amount that's specified, not the work. It's hard to imagine a context where one would need to specify the work.
 
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First, please tell us what you think the best options are.

I should have told that in my OP.:oops: To me, the best ones are:

a) It's hard to estimate
the amount of work he can do.
b) It's hard to estimate the amount of work he did yesterday.
c)
It's hard to estimate the amount of the work he did yesterday. (?)
d) The amount of work he did yesterday is enormous.
e)
The amount of the work he did yesterday is enormous. (?)

I'm not sure about (c) and (e). I think these are possible, since 'work' is specified.


Use the amount of work in all three cases. It's hard to imagine a context where one would need to specify the work.

The work in (2) and (3) is specified and limited to "the work he did yesterday." I've also found some examples of the amount of the, an amount of the and an adjective amount of the:

https://ludwig.guru/s/the+amount+of+the
https://ludwig.guru/s/an+amount+of+the
https://ludwig.guru/s/a+small+amount+of+the
https://ludwig.guru/s/a+huge+amount+of+the
 
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I'm not sure about (c) and (e). I think these are possible, since 'work' is specified.

Yes, there could be reasons to use (c) and (e).

The work in (2) and (3) is specified and limited to "the work he did yesterday."

No, it's not specified or limited to the work he did yesterday. It's limited to all of the work that is referred to. The reference here is exophoric. That means that without context, we don't know which specific work is being referred to. In context, however, both the speaker and the listener would know this.

The reference words he and yesterday tell us only about the amount, and nothing about what specific work was done.


Yes, but why? How does that help? Do you have a question about this?
 
It's limited to all of the work that is referred to.

But "the work he did yesterday" is actually all of the work that is referred to in the sentence. I see nothing exophoric there. Or, maybe I didn't get your point.

The reference words he and yesterday tell us only about the amount, and nothing about what specific work was done.

To me, specific and specified are not the same in meaning. Yes, the work is not specific. But it is specified and limited in volume by means of "he did yesterday." "Work he can do" is much more indefinite and vague.

Yes, but why? How does that help? Do you have a question about this?

I'm futilely trying to figure out the rule or pattern. For example, I don't understand why "an amount" is used in the following example instead of "the amount" (from Ludwig):

"The studies, which appeared in The New England Journal of Medicine, examined cancer status and rate of survival in patients given an amount of the chemotherapeutic agent daunorubicin that was twice the dose typically prescribed."
 
But "the work he did yesterday" is actually all of the work that is referred to in the sentence. I see nothing exophoric there. Or, maybe I didn't get your point.

No, it's not all of the work. The rest of the work is referred to outside of the sentence.


To me, specific and specified are not the same in meaning. Yes, the work is not specific. But it is specified and limited in volume by means of "he did yesterday." "Work he can do" is much more indefinite and vague.

No, it isn't. You're misunderstanding the sense of the sentence.

I'm futilely trying to figure out the rule or pattern. For example, I don't understand why "an amount" is used in the following example instead of "the amount" (from Ludwig):

"The studies, which appeared in The New England Journal of Medicine, examined cancer status and rate of survival in patients given an amount of the chemotherapeutic agent daunorubicin that was twice the dose typically prescribed."

Look, maybe you should focus on the very basic differences between indefinite and definite noun phrases. The difference between a and the is always fundamentally the same. Get the most basic rules clear first, and then extrapolate from there.
 
No, it isn't.

There is a very funny sketch by Monty Python called ''Argument" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohDB5gbtaEQ). It's funny to watch, but I don't want to act it out here.

Look, maybe you should focus on the very basic differences between indefinite and definite noun phrases.

I have no problems with articles most of the time. But there are some cases when I feel lost. Would you please explain to me "an amount" in the sentence?
 
There is a very funny sketch by Monty Python called ''Argument" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohDB5gbtaEQ). It's funny to watch, but I don't want to act it out here.

I'm sorry to contradict you, Alexey, but I think what we're disagreeing about is exactly what you're having trouble with here.

In the simple isolated phrase the work he did yesterday, the part reading he did yesterday does limit and specify the work. The word work is the head of the noun phrase that he did yesterday is modifying.

However, in the sentence we're discussing, that's not the case. That's why it's confusing you, I believe. In the sentence in question, the part reading he did yesterday relates to the amount, not the work. In the entire noun phrase the amount of the work, the head is amount, not work.

You could paraphrase your sentence 2 like this: Relative to all of the work that we're talking about, the proportion of it that he did yesterday is hard to estimate.

Does that make sense?


I'm not trying to argue with you. I'm just trying to answer your questions, which is not easy because firstly, this is a difficult area to explain at the best of times, secondly, the noun phrase the amount is complicating things, and thirdly, I'm not entirely sure what your line of thinking is.
 
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I see your point now, jutfrank. Sorry for my cheekiness. But isn't it possible for "the amount of work he did yesterday" to be the entire amount and not only the part the proportion of which we try to estimate? I mean, doesn't the sentence allow for both readings?

You said earlier it's possible to use "the amount of the work". What did you mean? Maybe it's the case when we're talking about the entire amount (see above)? If so, we have two options:

a) "The amount of work he did yesterday" = yesterday's part (Is it grammatical?) of all the work.

b) "The amount of the work he did yesterday" = all the work.

And would you please explain "an amount" in my last example? It confuses me due to the combination of "an amount of the chemotherapeutic agent daunorubicin + that was twice the dose typically prescribed." Why isn't it "the amount"?
 
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I see your point now, jutfrank. Sorry for my cheekiness. But isn't it possible for "the amount of work he did yesterday" to be the entire amount and not only the part the proportion of which we try to estimate? I mean, doesn't the sentence allow for both readings?

Do you mean the amount of work or the amount of the work? The former yes, the latter, no. Because if the the amount is the entire amount, then there would be no need to use the before work.

You said earlier it's possible to use "the amount of the work". What did you mean? Maybe it's the case when we're talking about the entire amount (see above)? If so, we have two options:

a) "The amount of work he did yesterday" = yesterday's part (Is it grammatical?) of all the work.

b) "The amount of the work he did yesterday" = all the work.

b) is right but a) isn't. With a zero article, there's no sense of parts or wholes because the following noun (work) is abstract and uncountable. That kind of means that it's indivisible. In a), the word work represents an indefinite, abstract idea, whereas in b), with the definite article, it's limited to a specific set of events.

And would you please explain "an amount" in my last example? It confuses me due to the combination of "an amount of the chemotherapeutic agent daunorubicin + that was twice the dose typically prescribed." Why isn't it "the amount"?

Not here, no. If you start a new thread, I will.
 
I'm confused because I see a contradiction in your reasoning. At first, you replied, "The former yes, the latter, no," confirming that "the amount of work he did yesterday" allows for both readings. But then you said, "b) is right but a) isn't," which means that "the amount of work" doesn't allow for both readings. What am I missing?

In a), the word work represents an indefinite, abstract idea, whereas in b), with the definite article, it's limited to a specific set of events.

The construction of a house, for example, always includes a specific set of actions/events. If I said about a builder, "It's hard to estimate the amount of work he did yesterday," I certainly wouldn't mean some abstract idea. That's why I'm trying to figure out the difference between "the amount of work" and "the amount of the work".

Let's consider the following contexts:

x) Our man has been building a house for three days = It's the entire amount of work.

x-1) It's hard to estimate the amount of work he did yesterday.
x-2) It's hard to estimate the amount of the work he did yesterday.

I tend to choose x-2) because of all of the work, we're trying to estimate only the amount of yesterday's part. There's an implied contrast between the entire work and yesterday's part.

y) Our man was building a house all day yesterday = It's the entire amount of work.

y-1) It's hard to estimate the amount of work he did yesterday.
y-2) It's hard to estimate the amount of the work he did yesterday.

I tend to choose y-1) because the work being estimated is all of the work.

I wrote this comment in an hour and a half.:roll:
 
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I'm confused because I see a contradiction in your reasoning. At first, you replied, "The former yes, the latter, no," confirming that "the amount of work he did yesterday" allows for both readings. But then you said, "b) is right but a) isn't," which means that "the amount of work" doesn't allow for both readings. What am I missing?

I'm not sure. It seems one or both of us have misunderstood something. I think it may be that I misunderstood what you meant here:

a) "The amount of work he did yesterday" = yesterday's part (Is it grammatical?) of all the work.

b) "The amount of the work he did yesterday" = all the work.


The construction of a house, for example, always includes a specific set of actions/events. If I said about a builder, "It's hard to estimate the amount of work he did yesterday," I certainly wouldn't mean some abstract idea. That's why I'm trying to figure out the difference between "the amount of work" and "the amount of the work".

Okay, you're rejecting my explanation. That's fine. I accept it is difficult to understand this, so I'll try to convince you one more time.

When a speaker says It's hard to estimate the amount of work he did yesterday, he probably has lots of different thoughts and pictures in his mind as he speaks, but the 'main' thought at the forefront of his mind is revealed by the language he uses to express it.

From the words and structure of the sentence he uses, we can hear that the focus of his mind is something about a quantity. This could well be a number (I imagine an employer talking about a worker, while doing payroll, for example). In any case, even though he's probably imagining the worker actually doing specific events, his mind is focused on 'the amount' in whatever way that may be represented mentally, numerical or otherwise. He uses the amount with a definite article because he's making specific reference to it. He could have chosen to say It's hard to estimate how much work he did yesterday, but he didn't, and there's a reason for that.

He also could have said It's hard to estimate how much of the work he did yesterday. If he had done that, he would thereby be making specific reference to 'work', for some reason. Normally, when a speaker uses a definite article, it is because he is confident that the listener will know what he's referring to. A likely interpretation is that the speaker and listener here both have the idea that the work refers to, say, a building project, where there's a total amount of work that must be done, and 'he' did an inestimable part of it yesterday. The use of the definite article shows that the speaker wants to 'point out' this total amount to the listener. By doing this, he's defining the abstract notion of 'work' by limiting it only to work done on this project. Another way to say that is that he's specifying the way that the abstract concept of work is applied to this particular situation, at this time and in this place, realised through this particular set of events.

I think you'll do well to keep in mind the idea that every time a speaker uses the, it's as if he's literally pointing with his finger to the concept represented by the word that follows. That's what's called 'reference' in academic terms. With concrete nouns, which represent physical objects, it's quite easy to imagine someone pointing to them, but with abstract nouns, like 'work', it's not so easy, but it's still the same thing—the speaker is pointing to the concept in his mind.

So when a speaker decides to use a zero article, it is because he does not want or need to make reference to the concept. It exists only as a generalisation in his mind, whether that's essentially a singular idea (as with uncountable nouns) or a plural idea (as with plural nouns). By using a zero article, the speaker in our sentence does not wish to specify his concept of work. He's too busy focusing on a specific amount of a generalised idea. There's no particular work he wants to 'point to'.


Let's consider the following contexts:

x) Our man has been building a house for three days = It's the entire amount of work.

x-1) It's hard to estimate the amount of work he did yesterday.
x-2) It's hard to estimate the amount of the work he did yesterday.

I tend to choose x-2) because of all of the work, we're trying to estimate only the amount of yesterday's part. There's an implied contrast between the entire work and yesterday's part.

Yes, that's right. By using the work, he's referring to the entirety of the work, and by using the amount, he's referring to a specific proportion.

y) Our man was building a house all day yesterday = It's the entire amount of work.

y-1) It's hard to estimate the amount of work he did yesterday.
y-2) It's hard to estimate the amount of the work he did yesterday.

I tend to choose y-1) because the work being estimated is all of the work.

Yes, but it's still possible the speaker could have used y-2, if he wants to specify the entirety of the work. But yes, it is easier to imagine that he doesn't need to. He's just talking about work in general. Even though there is of course some part of his mind entertaining the specificities of this particular building job, the part of his mind/brain responsible for speech (in academic terms called the 'mind-language interface') is using only the generalised concept. We can tell that by the language he uses.

I wrote this comment in an hour and a half.:roll:

Lucky there's not much to do outside, right?
 
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Thank you for such a detailed answer!

Yes, that's right. By using the work, he's referring to the entirety of the work, and by using the amount, he's referring to a specific proportion.

You've found it, the point of my misunderstanding! I thought it's the other way around. Here are the steps of my reasoning:

Step 1: Our man has been building a house for three days = It's the entire amount of work.
Step 2: He did some work yesterday.
Step 3: We're trying to estimate the amount of this work = yesterday' work = the work.

I meant [the amount of][the work he did yesterday], not [the amount of the (entire) work][he did yesterday].
The former implies an absolute value, say, one hundred bricks. The latter implies a relative value, say, one hundred bricks as one third of all of the work.

Lucky there's not much to do outside, right?

Exactly! I just wish it were for a different reason.
 
I meant [the amount of][the work he did yesterday], not [the amount of the (entire) work][he did yesterday].

Exactly. That's what I tried to explain (badly) in post #9.

Glad we got there!
 
Exactly. That's what I tried to explain (badly) in post #9.

But it's still not clear to me whether the amount of the work he did yesterday can have both readings in the three-day work context or only the relative-value one?

I'd like to clarify the relative value's meaning: [the amount of the (entire) work][he did yesterday] = [the amount of the part of the (entire) work][he did yesterday]. Otherwise, it looks very similar to the absolute one despite the brackets.
 
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If you use the before work, there must be some kind of relative value. For example, imagine he did some work yesterday, but only a part of it was bricklaying, you could say:

It's hard to estimate the amount of [[the work he did yesterday] that was bricklaying].

Now you have a relative clause inside another relative clause, and your bracketed part makes sense. Without the extra relative clause, your absolute-value reading doesn't make sense.

The addition of the amount of may be confusing you on this issue. For me at least, it carries a necessary sense of relativity, effectively synonymous to 'the proportion of'. If you just want to estimate only that part of the totality of work he did yesterday, you don't need to use the:

It's hard to estimate the amount of work he did yesterday.

Alternatively, you could use the but omit the amount of:

It's hard to estimate [the work he did yesterday].
 
Alternatively, you could use the but omit the amount of:

It's hard to estimate [the work he did yesterday].

Suppose someone asks our builder, "How much work did you do yesterday?" He replies, "The amount of that work is hard to estimate." (I know it sounds unnatural, but I'm only interested in grammar.)

All I suggest is replacing "that work" with "the work I did yesterday" because these mean the same. Am I missing something again?
 
It makes no difference whether you use the or that since they're both doing the same redundant determinative job.

If the questioner doesn't use a determiner in the question, why would the responder need to use one? There's just no need for a determiner there, so it would be an inappropriate answer. The questioner would wonder why the responder used any kind of determiner. They might say Why do you say 'that' work? What do you mean? What work? I just want to know how much work you did yesterday!

I can now only keep repeating what I've already said, I'm afraid, so let's end this thread now. I'm more than happy to continue answering questions about articles, but we really ought to simplify any example sentences we use if we want better results.
 
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