as she will have already failed = having already failed

[ademoglu]

Hi,

I've come across the sentences below on a grammar site made by a Turkish speaker.

The Perfect Participle

- As she will have already failed twice, she will not risk another try.
--------› Having already failed twice, she will not risk another try.

I'd like to ask if the information above is OK or not. And I'd also like to ask if we can use 'having done' instead of a future perfect as is above.

Thanks.

 

[bhaisahab]

The first one seems unlikely to me. In what situation would you use it?

 

[ademoglu]

There's no context given regarding those sentences on the website; I just copied and pasted them. :roll:

I think that in the second sentence, 'having already failed twice' refers to a past event, am I right? Can we reduce 'will have done' to 'having done'; in other words, is the perfect participle used instead of 'future perfect tenses'?

 

[Tarheel]

"Having already failed twice" definitely refers to a past event. After two failures, the person is unwilling to try again.

 

[Matthew Wai]

'Having failed, she will not try again.'
Could 'Having failed' refer to the future?

 

[Tarheel]

"Having failed" does not and cannot refer to the future.

 

[Matthew Wai]

Do you mean 'having + past participle' can only refer to the past?
Can it refer to the future in 'Having finished the exam, I will have summer vacation'?

 

[bhaisahab]

That is a very unnatural sentence, Matthew.

 

[Tarheel]

You could say:

Once I have finished the exam I will have summer vacation.

OR

After I finish the exam I will have summer vacation.

 

[Matthew Wai]

Actually I would say 'I will have summer vacation after finishing the exam', but I just wondered whether 'having + past participle' could refer to the future in a suitable context.

 

[MikeNewYork]

It does not refer to the future.

 

[Raymott]

"Having done" can certainly refer to a time in the future (counting now as the present).
Boss: "Tomorrow, you will buy that item I want. Having done that, you will bring it straight to me."
"I'm studying Medicine. Having finished my course, I will go to work in Africa."

 

[MikeNewYork]

Those still refer to the past.

Having done that is past compared to "you will".
Having finished is past compared to "I will".

 

[Matthew Wai]

I think 'having done' and 'having finished' refer to the future compared to the moment of speaking.

 

[ademoglu]

In post 8, bhaisahab says M. Wai's post in 7 is very unnatural, but I see that in post 12 Raymott's sentence is very similar to that.


I feel very confused. What's the final answer? :roll:

 

[Matthew Wai]

'I'm studying for the exam. Having finished the exam, I will have summer vacation.'
Would it be less unnatural? The construction above is the same as the one below.

"I'm studying Medicine. Having finished my course, I will go to work in Africa."

 

[Raymott]

Those still refer to the past.

"On 10th Jan 2016, you will buy that item I want. Having done that, you will bring it straight to me."
It refers to the future if you take now as the present. It explicitly refers to 10th Jan, which is in the future, as I write. And it would if I said it.
Naturally, they refer to the past if the current date is 10th Jan. and you've bought the item.
"Having done something" has no time attached to it.

 

[MikeNewYork]

I don't see an "already have" in your post.

 

[Matthew Wai]

"Having done something" has no time attached to it.

I think this is because it is a modifier instead of a time marker.