find/know something (to) V

[Phaedrus]

The researchers found the business to do well under such circumstances.

That's the sentence emsr2d2 and I have been talking about.

And you seem to want to say that something is wrong with it.

Well, what's wrong with it, then?

"We don't like it" is not a good answer.

 

[5jj]

I found the sentence unnatural . You didn't:

that one doesn't seem unnatural to me, which is why I used it.

As I said elsewhere, we have different opinions.

 

[Phaedrus]

What I like about grammar as a subject matter is the power that it gives one to make generalizations that can be applied in a wide variety of sentences.

It does not make sense to restrict a grammatical discussion to the acceptability of a single sentence when the discussion is supposed to be about a construction.

A grammatical construction can be realized by a potentially infinite number of sentences.

Unless, as seems unlikely, do is somehow uniquely awful in this construction; if the construction is grammatical in general, it can be grammatical with do, too.

Here's another example. We may suppose that Speaker B is studying the lifestyle of people in a foreign country and is reporting to A on their weekend habits.

A: What did you find them to do on weekends?
B: I found them to go to the movies, eat meals out, and take walks in the park, just as we often do over the weekend.

 

[Peedeebee]

I'd go for "to be doing" in the original; question. (in British Engish)
It definitely needs the "to".

 

[Tarheel]

I have no idea what it was born out of, but I will stand by my assertion that, in BrE at least, that particular construction with "do" sounds extremely unnatural and I wouldn't use it. Maybe it's yet another of our long list of BrE/AmE differences.

Not to me. I don't want to argue with the experts, but these artificial sentences often come across as just that -- artificial. (In my humble opinion.) If I could somehow imagine a context in which it would fit that would of course change things.

 

[Phaedrus]

From The Gardener's Monthly (1860):

Mr. Harrison: I suggest the Hornet. I have known it for three years, and it bears enormous crops. It is of a fine quality, and for a raspberry, will pay well. It sells in the market at from 37 to 50 cents per quart, while others are selling it at 25. It attains a very large size, and is worthy of our attention.

Mr. Reid: I have had the Hornet on my place, and think much of it.

Mr. Parry: It bears abundantly, and I find it to succeed very well, but I do not think it is hardy.

Mr. Mitchell: I have always found it to do well, and I concur in what the other gentlemen say.

 

[5jj]

i found those citations, too. As they were from 160 years ago, I did not think them particularly relevant to our discussion.

 

[Phaedrus]

i found those citations, too. As they were from 160 years ago, I did not think them particularly relevant to our discussion.

Is your position now, then, that "find NP to V" used to be grammatical with do as the V but ceased to be grammatical at some point—at least in time for this thread?

 

[5jj]

Is your position now, then, that "find NP to V" used to be grammatical with do as the V but ceased to be grammatical at some point—at least in time for this thread?

My 'position' is, as it has been throughout this thread, that I find the sentence "The researchers found the business to do well under such circumstances" unnatural. It may have been acceptable in the past. As we seem to be getting nowhere with this, I'll leave it there.

 

[Phaedrus]

My 'position' is, as it has been throughout this thread, that I find the sentence "The researchers found the business to do well under such circumstances" unnatural.

How you personally find my sentence really doesn't matter, insofar as its grammar is concerned, unless you mean to criticize the construction my sentence exemplifies.

Moreover, if you thought about a context in which my sentence might be used (an M.B.A. research context, let us say), you might very well not find it unnatural after all!

 

[5jj]

As we seem to be getting nowhere with this, I'll leave it there.

 

[Phaedrus]

As we seem to be getting nowhere with this, I'll leave it there.

How could we get anywhere with a mere judgement of unnaturalness concerning one isolated example? Of itself, in a discussion of grammar, such a judgement goes nowhere. Unlike you, the rest of us are talking about a construction. If that construction can be grammatically realized, its number of possible grammatical realizations is unlimited.

 

[Rover_KE]

The thread is becoming argumentative.

I've locked it. Please move on.