future perfect

[aysaa]

Hello,

1- (By) this time next week, we will have just arrived in Italy. (Is 'by' is necessary in this sentence?)

2- I will have waited for you until 5 pm. (The process of 'waiting' will last until 5 pm)
3- I will have waited for you by 5 pm. (I will wait for you 'no later than 5 pm or before 5 pm')

(Which one must we use in negative future perfect, until or by?)

4- She won't have completed the report until/by tomorrow.
5- They won't have worked with these children until/by next May.
6- He won't have arrived home until after 5:30.

I have some trouble about 'future perfect', and I have given you some sentences along with my explanations. Could you please check them?

Thanks

 

[bhaisahab]

Hello,

1- (By) this time next week, we will have just arrived in Italy. (Is 'by' is necessary in this sentence?) It's possible with or without "by" but I would delete "just".

2- I will have waited for you until 5 pm. (The process of 'waiting' will last until 5 pm)
3- I will have waited for you by 5 pm. (I will wait for you 'no later than 5 pm or before 5 pm')

2 and 3 are incorrect.

Thanks

Bhai.

 

[UM Chakma]

Bhai.

Bhai, #3 seems to me quite okay. Please do not mind it's just my opinion or what I feel myself. Because I have seen future perfect tense always goes with "by". The truth is that most of the students get in trouble with perfect tense. Could you please tell us why it is incorrect?

Note that I am neither a teacher nor a native speaker.

 

[aysaa]

(Which one must we use in negative future perfect, until or by?)

4- She won't have completed the report until/by tomorrow.
5- They won't have worked with these children until/by next May.
6- He won't have arrived home until after 5:30.

Thank you both. Why is sentence 3 is wrong? What about sentences 4, 5 and 6? I think 'by' is the correct one, am I right?

 

[bhaisahab]

Bhai, #3 seems to me quite okay. Please do not mind it's just my opinion or what I feel myself. Because I have seen future perfect tense always goes with "by". The truth is that most of the students get in trouble with perfect tense. Could you please tell us why it is incorrect?

Note that I am neither a teacher nor a native speaker.

In what context would you use #3?

 

[bhaisahab]

Thank you both. Why is sentence 3 is wrong? What about sentences 4, 5 and 6? I think 'by' is the correct one, am I right?

4- She won't have completed the report until/by tomorrow. Both are possible, with different meanings.5- They won't have worked with these children until/by next May. As above.
6- He won't have arrived home until after 5:30. This is fine.

 

[konungursvia]

Bhai is certainly correct. The sentence with "by" doesn't make sense, logically or grammatically.

 

[UM Chakma]

In what context would you use #3?

"I will be back by 6. They will have finished by then." This is I collected from a certain website and it's correct. Then can't I say it to mean the same as "They will have finished by 6"? And is this not as same as #3?

 

[Tdol]

No, it's not- the verb is different. Changing the meaning can change whether a structure works or not.

 

[5jj]

No, it's not- the verb is different. Changing the meaning can change whether a structure works or not.

@ UK Chakma

Compare:
I will finish by 6. :tick:
I will finish until 6.:cross:
I will wait by 6.:cross:
I will wait until 6.:tick:

 

[UM Chakma]

How about "I will have been there by 6" to wait for you. Is it okay?

 

[konungursvia]

If you are Douglas Adams, it would be acceptable as a mockery of tenses, as he writes in response to the possibility of time travel.

One of the major problems encountered in time travel is not that of accidentally becoming your own father or mother.[...]
The major problem is quite simply one of grammar, and the main work to consult in this matter is Dr Dan Streetmentioner's Time Traveller's Handbook of 1001 Tense Formations. It will tell you for instance how to describe something that was about to happen to you in the past before you avoided it by time-jumping forward two days in order to avoid it. The event will be described differently according to whether you are talking about it from the standpoint of your own natural time, from a time in the further future, or a time in the further past and is further complicated by the possibility of conducting conversations whilst you are actually travelling from one time to another with the intention of becoming your own father or mother.
Most readers get as far as the Future Semi-Conditionally Modified Subinverted Plagal Past Subjunctive Intentional before giving up: and in fact in later editions of the book all the pages beyond this point have been left blank to save on printing costs.
The Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy skips lightly over this tangle of academic abstraction, pausing only to note that the term "Future Perfect" has been abandoned since it was discovered not to be.

 

[5jj]

How about "I will have been there by 6" to wait for you. Is it okay?

Not really.

I will have got there by 6 is possible, as is I will be there by 6.

 

[aysaa]

In what context would you use #3?

I think I have got a sentence. ''I will have waited and gone by 6 pm''. I am not sure it is OK. :roll:

 

[bhaisahab]

I think I have got a sentence. ''I will have waited and gone by 6 pm''. I am not sure it is OK. :roll:

That's very unnatural.