[Grammar] Had he carried it out

mrmvp

Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2017
Member Type
Student or Learner
Native Language
Arabic
Home Country
United Arab Emirates
Current Location
United Arab Emirates
When I was reading a biography text, I encountered a confusing structure in a red color.

I guess it is "If clause type 3" the structure I know in "If clause type 3" is If+s+v3 ,S + modal verb+ have+ v3. For example,

If I had gone to Italy, I would have visited Monte Grappa.

When I first saw "had he carried it out,"I thought it is a question because "had" came before "he"

Inflated by his wondrous success in Spain, Musa Ibn Nusair planned a magnificent campaign,which,had he carried it out , would have given quite a diffrent phase to subsequent European histoy.

 

Skrej

Key Member
Joined
May 11, 2015
Member Type
English Teacher
Native Language
English
Home Country
United States
Current Location
United States
Try inserting 'if' in front of 'had', and see if that helps clarify things. It's essentially a third conditional, but missing that introductory 'if', along with a slight rearrangement of the usual word order.
 

GoesStation

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 22, 2015
Member Type
Interested in Language
Native Language
American English
Home Country
United States
Current Location
United States
Had he carried it out is a slightly fancier way to say if he had carried it out.

Remember to put a space after every comma. Never put a space before a comma.
 

Tdol

Editor, UsingEnglish.com
Staff member
Joined
Nov 13, 2002
Member Type
English Teacher
Native Language
British English
Home Country
UK
Current Location
Japan
It's not a question; it's an inversion.
 

mrmvp

Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2017
Member Type
Student or Learner
Native Language
Arabic
Home Country
United Arab Emirates
Current Location
United Arab Emirates
Had he carried it out is a slightly fancier way to say if he had carried it out.

Remember to put a space after every comma. Never put a space before a comma.



can I apply the same rule of "If clause type 3" in if clause type 1 and 2 ?

I mean, can I omit "if" in if clause type 1 and 2? as in if clause type 3 had he carried it out , would have given quite a diffrent phase to subsequent European histoy.


Thank you all
 

GoesStation

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 22, 2015
Member Type
Interested in Language
Native Language
American English
Home Country
United States
Current Location
United States
Your sample sentence is not possible. I don't know what a type 1 or 2 sentence is so I can't comment on that.
 

mrmvp

Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2017
Member Type
Student or Learner
Native Language
Arabic
Home Country
United Arab Emirates
Current Location
United Arab Emirates
Your sample sentence is not possible. I don't know what a type 1 or 2 sentence is so I can't comment on that.

I think both if clause and if conditional are the same.

can I omit the "if " in the examples below

An example of "If clause type 1"



If I find her address, I will send her an invitation.


An example of if clause type 2

If had time, I would take nap
 

Tdol

Editor, UsingEnglish.com
Staff member
Joined
Nov 13, 2002
Member Type
English Teacher
Native Language
British English
Home Country
UK
Current Location
Japan
An example of if clause type 2

If had time, I would take nap

That doesn't work.

If you want to invert with all three conditionals, try the following:

Should I see her, I will give her you message. (Type 1)
Were I to win the lottery, I wouldn't change the way I live. (Type 2)
Had I seen him, I would have told him what I thought. (Type 3)
 

Matthew Wai

VIP Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2013
Member Type
Interested in Language
Native Language
Chinese
Home Country
China
Current Location
Hong Kong
Last edited:

mrmvp

Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2017
Member Type
Student or Learner
Native Language
Arabic
Home Country
United Arab Emirates
Current Location
United Arab Emirates
Thank you all.
what is the difference between inversion and normal if clause?

Examples

If I had time, I would go to Spain.
Had I time, I would go to Spain.
if I were a rich, I would buy BMW.
Were I rich, I would buy BMW.

Are the following sentences correct?

inversion of if clause type 1 ( can I only use modal verbs in if clause type 1 like ( Should I see her, I will give her you message) can i say , Does she studie hard, she will be awarded.

If I have money, I will visit Italy.
Inversion of if clause type 2
Shall I bought PS4, I would be happy,
I sold my house, I would buy a small apartment.


Inversion of if clause type 3

Had I Had one million dollars, I would have traveled all over the world.
Had he gone to America, he would have acquired an American accent
 
Last edited by a moderator:

GoesStation

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 22, 2015
Member Type
Interested in Language
Native Language
American English
Home Country
United States
Current Location
United States
... can i say , Does she studie hard, she will be awarded. No. You could say Should she study hard....

If I have money, I will visit Italy.

Inversion of if clause type 2

Shall I bought PS4, I would be happy, No.
Were I to buy a PS4....


I sold my house, I would buy a small apartment. No. Were I to sell my house....

Inversion of if clause type 3

Had I Had one million dollars, I would have traveled all over the world. Yes,
if you correct the capitalization error.


Had he gone to America, he would have acquired an American accent.
Yes, if you include the final period ("full stop" in British English).

See above. Unless you are really fascinated by this construction, I suggest you forget about learning to reproduce it. Just learn to recognize and understand it. This kind of inversion is rarely used in conversational English and would tend to sound odd - and even impede comprehensibility - on the lips of a non-native speaker.
 

andrewg927

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2017
Member Type
Interested in Language
Native Language
English
Home Country
United States
Current Location
United States
This kind of inversion is rarely used in conversational English and would tend to sound odd - and even impede comprehensibility - on the lips of a non-native speaker.

I agree. I have looked at your sentences and they are all over the place. If you use it in speech, native speakers will not understand or misunderstand you.
 

Matthew Wai

VIP Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2013
Member Type
Interested in Language
Native Language
Chinese
Home Country
China
Current Location
Hong Kong

andrewg927

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2017
Member Type
Interested in Language
Native Language
English
Home Country
United States
Current Location
United States
"Had I enough money" sounds really dated to me. I can't speak for BE and you don't really hear phrases like that nowadays in the US.

Technically they are not wrong but when I see a sentence like that written by a non-native, my first reaction is "Hmm, maybe he meant something else".
 
Last edited:

Matthew Wai

VIP Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2013
Member Type
Interested in Language
Native Language
Chinese
Home Country
China
Current Location
Hong Kong
I can't speak for BE and you don't really hear phrases like that nowadays in the US.
How about the following one written by a native AmE speaker?
Were I a moderator here, I would ban you from the forum.

Technically they are not wrong but when I see a sentence like that written by a non-native, my first reaction is "Hmm, maybe he meant something else".
Technically they were not written by me. I just plagiarized something written by native speakers.
 

Tdol

Editor, UsingEnglish.com
Staff member
Joined
Nov 13, 2002
Member Type
English Teacher
Native Language
British English
Home Country
UK
Current Location
Japan
MNY's sentence sounds fine to my BrE ears.
 

mrmvp

Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2017
Member Type
Student or Learner
Native Language
Arabic
Home Country
United Arab Emirates
Current Location
United Arab Emirates
See above. Unless you are really fascinated by this construction, I suggest you forget about learning to reproduce it. Just learn to recognize and understand it. This kind of inversion is rarely used in conversational English and would tend to sound odd - and even impede comprehensibility - on the lips of a non-native speaker.

Thank you

I am not fascinated by this construction. Is it compulsory to use "should in if clause type 1 and "were" in if clause type2 and Are

there other options than should and were?


My problem lies in translation that kind of constraction.


I wonder, Are " If I study hard, I will get a perfect job".and " Should I study hard, I will get a perfect job. have the same meaning ?

 
Top