How long before/until they fix it?

[Marika33]

You're driving by an auto repair shop and you see that a sign above the shop is broken. Some people are fixing it.
How can you ask how long is left?

1. How long before they fix it?
2. How long until they fix it?
3. How long before they've fixed it?
4. How long until they've fixed it?

 

[emsr2d2]

1 and 2 don't work if the repair is already underway. 3 and 4 are OK. Of the two, I prefer 4. However, what I would actually say is "How long's it going to take them to fix it?"

 

[Tarheel]

Me: How long's it going to take to fix the sign?
Them: We'll finish today.
Me: Mind if I watch?
Them: Go right ahead

 

[tedmc]

"How long's it going to take them to fix it?"

Doesn't this mean they haven't started on the job?

 

[Tarheel]

Doesn't this mean they haven't started on the job?

No, they might have already started. In fact, that's probably the case.

 

[tedmc]

No, they might have already started. In fact, that's probably the case.

OP said it was being fixed.

 

[Tarheel]

@tedmc Exactly!

 

[Skrej]

1 and 2 don't work if the repair is already underway.

Why not? It's a way of asking how long the repairs are expected to take.

It's actually a question I've been asking a lot lately with our IT department. They say they're working on fixing problem X, so I'll press them and ask how long until it's fixed.

It's similar to asking "How long until/before they get it fixed?" or "How much longer until it's fixed?"

 

[Marika33]

1. How long before they fix it?
2. How long until they fix it?
3. How long before they've fixed it?
4. How long until they've fixed it?

1 and 2 don't work if the repair is already underway. 3 and 4 are OK. Of the two, I prefer 4. However, what I would actually say is "How long's it going to take them to fix it?"

I don't understand.
First you said "1 and 2 don't work if the repair is already underwar", then you said that what you would actually say was "How long is it going to take them to fix it?".
In all of the three (1, 2 and yours) there's the simple aspect. Shouldn't it be "How long is it going to take them to have fixed it/to have/get it fixed?" in your version? If not, why don't 1 and 2 work?

So, OK, if the repair is already underway, the sentences with the simple aspect (1, 2) don't work, then I'd like to ask, if they haven't started the repair, all of the four are fine, right?

 

[Marika33]

You're driving by an auto repair shop and you see that a sign above the shop is broken. Some people are fixing it.
How can you ask how long is left?

1. How long before they fix it?
2. How long until they fix it?
3. How long before they've fixed it?
4. How long until they've fixed it?

1 and 2 (simple) don't work if the repair is already underway. 3 and 4 (perfect) are OK.

To be honest, I doubt that. I need some proof. I don't actually think this is true that you can't use "until/before they fix it" if somebody is already fixing it. Why?

Here's why. I was doing some Duolingo and found this situation, a man says to his child, "You're growing up so fast" and then after a short while the kid asks a girl who's helping them pick out clothes if he can hang out with her when he !grows up!.

Father to his child: You're growing up so fast!
The child to a girl: Can I hang out with you when I grow up?

He doesn't use the perfect tense "when I've grown up", but the simple tense "when I grow up" even though he's just been told by his father that he's growing up so fast. So, having seen this example from Duolingo, I assume that using the simple aspect to indicate the completion moment is natural even if the action is already happening.

(The person being asked this question is growing up).
1A. What do you want to be when you grow up? (simple)
2A. What do you want to be when you've grown up? (perfect)

("They" are already fixing it).
1B. How long before/until they fix it? (simple)
2B. How long before/until they've fixed it? (perfect)

Is there somebody here who can logically help me with this matter?

 

[emsr2d2]

Those are totally different situations from the original but if you want to base your English on what you see on Duolingo over what native speakers tell you, that's entirely your prerogative.

 

[Piscean]

To be honest, I doubt that. I need some proof. I don't actually think this is true that you can't use "until/before they fix it" if somebody is already fixing it.

emsr2d2 is not in the habit of saying things that are not true.

 

[Piscean]

I need some proof.

There is very little in language that can be 'proved'. Even with languages such as French which have some form of academy to prescribe how the language should be used, the Members of these academies can only rule that a construction/word will not be accepted in public examinations or official documents; they cannot actually force people to use, or not use, such expressions/words.

 

[Marika33]

emsr2d2 is not in the habit of saying things that are not true.

I'm not saying that I don't believe what Emsr2d2 is saying. I'm saying that I doubt that, becuase it doesn't make any sense. It's completely illogical that you can say, "What do you want to be when you grow up?" even if the person being asked this question is already growing up, and that sentence wouldn't even require the perfect tense, "... when you've grown up?", but at the same time, you cannot say, "How long until they fix it?", if the object is already being fixed and that would require the perfect tense "... until they've fixed it?". That makes absolutely zero sense.

Those are totally different situations from the original but if you want to base your English on what you see on Duolingo over what native speakers tell you, that's entirely your prerogative.

The point is not about Duolingo.
I guess that sentence, "What do you want to be when you grow (simple) up?" could be said by a native speaker if the person being asked that question is already growing up, couldn't it? Or would it require the perfect tense, ""What do you want to be when you've grown up?"?

 

[Tarheel]

@Marika33 I don't know what you mean by "already growing up". In fact, that's a phrase I have never run across before.

The same thing applies to "when you've grown up".

 

[jutfrank]

I say all four are fine.