I have learnt or I learnt, I have read or I read

[Rachel Adams]

Hello.

I often make this mistake and I would like to know if there is a particular rule I can follow to avoid making the same mistake again and again.

As far as I know, native speakers can choose either the simple past or the present perfect depending on what they want to focus on, the result or the moment the action was completed in the past. Can I use both tenses in my examples as well? 'I have learnt a lot from the discussions on this forum.' 'I have read a lot about different rules and nuances.' If it's wrong in British English maybe it's not wrong in American English.

 

[GoesStation]

Can I use both tenses in my examples as well? 'I have learnt a lot from the discussions on this forum.' 'I have read a lot about different rules and nuances.' If it's wrong in British English maybe it's not wrong in American English.

We use learned for the past simple and past participle in American English. Other than that, both sentences are possible with the past simple or present perfect, depending on context.

 

[Rover_KE]

We use learned ...

learnt is fine in BE.

 

[GoesStation]

learnt is fine in BE.

I've edited my early-morning, pre-coffee post. A few words that fell out between my head and my keypad have been recovered and properly placed. (I meant to make it clear that "learned" is the American version.)

 

[Rachel Adams]

learnt is fine in BE.

But regarding the tenses would you use the present perfect and past simple? 'have learnt' or 'learnt' 'have read' or 'read' in my sentences? Can I focus on either the present result or the moment in the past?

 

[Rachel Adams]

You can focus on what you want to.

So I can use both tenses. Right? In the original sentences?

 

[Tarheel]

You can use either tense. But not both.

 

[Rachel Adams]

You can use either tense. But not both.

Either in each sentence but it doesn't mean that 'I have read a lot about different rules... ' instead of 'I read a lot..' or 'I have learnt a lot from the forum discussions' instead of 'I learnt..' are wrong. Am I right? In my original sentences.

 

[GoesStation]

Either in each sentence but it doesn't mean that 'I have read a lot about different rules... ' instead of 'I read a lot..' or 'I have learnt a lot from the forum discussions' instead of 'I learnt..' are wrong. Am I right? In my original sentences.

We can't tell without placing the sentences in context.

 

[Tarheel]

Neither is wrong. You can use either. It depends on your preference. (Added; In my case perhaps more than yours it depends on preference because I am a native speaker, and I don't know what the rules are. )

(Goes is right also.)

 

[Rachel Adams]

Neither is wrong. You can use either. It depends on your preference. (Added; In my case perhaps more than yours it depends on preference because I am a native speaker, and I don't know what the rules are. )

(Goes is right also.)

You don't know how happy you are speaking it correctly without knowing rules :-D.

 

[Rachel Adams]

We can't tell without placing the sentences in context.

For context. After thanking teachers for answering my thread I say 'I have learnt (or I learnt) a lot from the discussions on this forum.' And I have read (or I read again the simple past instead of the present perfect)a lot about different rules and nuances.'

 

[GoesStation]

For context. After thanking teachers for answering my thread I say 'I have learnt (or I learnt) a lot from the discussions on this forum.' And I have read (or I read again the simple past instead of the present perfect)a lot about different rules and nuances.'

I have learnt a lot from the discussions on this forum. I participated in the discussions in the past and continue to do so.

I learnt a lot from the discussions on this forum. I participated in discussions here in the past. I no longer do.

Can you see how the tenses have the same effect on the other sentences?

 

[Rachel Adams]

I have learnt a lot from the discussions on this forum. I participated in the discussions in the past and continue to do so.

I learnt a lot from the discussions on this forum. I participated in discussions here in the past. I no longer do.

Can you see how the tenses have the same effect on the other sentences?

Yes, both actions are finished.
There is also a difference between finished periods and finished actions. Could you please explain it to me? I always thought a finished action and a finished period is the same. :shock:

From Swan. Note also that the choice between simple present perfect and simple past doesn't depend on whether we are talking about finished actions, as learner's grammars sometimes suggest ( though it can depend on whether we are talking about finished time periods). :shock:. Compare: That cat has eaten your supper. Finishet action.
I ate the last of the eggs this morning. Finished action.

 

[Rachel Adams]

NO. An action is an action and a period of time is a period of time!

I have seen Peter twice (completed actions) since the beginning of the year (time period extending up to the present moment).

I saw him (completed actions) in early February and on his birthday in May (completed time points in the past).

So if the time period is finished the only correct option is the simple past. If it's not finished then the only correct option is the present perfect. As shown in your examples.
If we have finished actions then either can be used as it is shown in the book's examples. 'The cat has eaten..' 'The cat ate..'

 

[emsr2d2]

NO. An action is an action and a period of time is a period of time!

I have seen Peter twice (completed actions) since the beginning of the year (time period extending up to the present moment).

I saw him (completed actions) in early February and on his birthday in May (completed time points in the past).

To combine Piscean's explanations above, here's a sentence that uses both:

I have seen Peter twice this year - I saw him in February and again in May.

 

[Rachel Adams]

To combine Piscean's explanations above, here's a sentence that uses both:

I have seen Peter twice this year - (Time period is not finished.) I saw him in February and again in May. (Finished actions)

Right?

 

[GoesStation]

Right?

Right.

 

[Rachel Adams]

Right.

Then to say that they are often interchangeable is wrong they are interchangeable when both time periods and actions are finished. As in these examples from Swan:
1. 'We have heard (or heard) that you have rooms to let.'
2. 'Has Mark phoned?' 'Did Mark phone?'
3. 'I've given or I gave your old radio to Philip.'
Is that right?

 

[GoesStation]

Then to say that they are often interchangeable is wrong they are interchangeable when both time periods and actions are finished. As in these examples from Swan:
1. 'We have heard (or heard) that you have rooms to let.'
2. 'Has Mark phoned?' 'Did Mark phone?'
3. 'I've given or I gave your old radio to Philip.'
Is that right?

The situation would guide me to one or the other tense in each of these sentences. It might be more random for a British person — or for my sister-in-law and other people in my region, for that matter.