If I said, "I gave him a good advice" vs If I said "I gave him a good advice" (comma)

[Alexey86]

If I said, "I gave him a good advice" vs If I said "I gave him a good advice" (comma)

In my previous thread (https://www.usingenglish.com/forum/...sibility-vs-life-vs-time-(countability)/page2), emsr2d2 corrected 'If I said, "I gave him a good advice," what would you call it?' to 'If I said (no comma) "I gave him a good advice", what would you call it?'.

Before this correction, I'd always put a comma before direct speech that included a complete sentence, except for one-word replies like "Yes" or "Maybe".

LEXICO says, "If the piece of direct speech comes after the information about who is speaking, you need to use a comma to introduce the direct speech."

Example: Steve replied, ‘No problem.’

(https://www.lexico.com/grammar/comma#grammar/comma#commas_in_direct_speech)


Would you please clarify to me this issue? Is it about "correct/wrong" or an individual style?

 

[GoesStation]

Re: If I said, "I gave him a good advice" vs If I said "I gave him a good advice" (co

Do you see the difference between these two sentences?

If I said "I gave him good advice", what would you call it?

I said, "I gave him good advice."

Note that I deleted an incorrect article.

 

[Alexey86]

Re: If I said, "I gave him a good advice" vs If I said "I gave him a good advice" (co

Do you see the difference between these two sentences?

In the first one, the direct speech is part of the subordinate clause. I'm not sure what to call it in the second, is it an independent clause?

 

[GoesStation]

Re: If I said, "I gave him a good advice" vs If I said "I gave him a good advice" (co

In the first one, the direct speech is part of the subordinate clause. I'm not sure what to call it in the second, is it an independent clause?

Hopefully someone who knows the answer will chime in soon.

 

[jutfrank]

Re: If I said, "I gave him a good advice" vs If I said "I gave him a good advice" (co

Here's my answer: I see absolutely no point in using a comma there. People who say the comma is required are wrong, in my opinion. I would ask those people what function they think it serves.

It certainly has been customary in the past to use a comma but I believe this is changing. So yes, it is a matter of style. I think you might agree with me that the sentence looks more elegant without such an unnecessary punctuation mark. If you do agree, my suggestion to you is also not to bother with one.

 

[Alexey86]

Re: If I said, "I gave him a good advice" vs If I said "I gave him a good advice" (co

Here's my answer: I see absolutely no point in using a comma there.

Do you mean only my sentence by "there", or LEXICO's too?

 

[emsr2d2]

Re: If I said, "I gave him a good advice" vs If I said "I gave him a good advice" (co

I have never understood the point of a comma between "said" and the quote following it either. It doesn't make sense because we don't pause there in speech. We say "I said yes" (no pause) so why we would write "I said, 'Yes'" is a mystery. The comma after a quote and before "I said" makes sense because we do pause. We say "What do you want (pause) I said" so it makes sense to write "'What do you want?', I said". (The pause is, I suppose, the result of the questioning intonation where the question mark goes.)

 

[Alexey86]

Re: If I said, "I gave him a good advice" vs If I said "I gave him a good advice" (co

People who say the comma is required are wrong, in my opinion.

What's the point in using comma before in my opinion"?

It certainly has been customary in the past to use a comma but I believe this is changing.

There are two independent clauses in this sentence. Shouldn't there be a comma before but?
(https://www.grammarly.com/blog/comma-before-but/)

 

[jutfrank]

Re: If I said, "I gave him a good advice" vs If I said "I gave him a good advice" (co

Do you mean only my sentence by "there", or LEXICO's too?

I was talking mainly about what Lexico says.

(Your sentence is slightly different.)

 

[jutfrank]

Re: If I said, "I gave him a good advice" vs If I said "I gave him a good advice" (co

The comma after a quote and before "I said" makes sense because we do pause. We say "What do you want (pause) I said" so it makes sense to write "'What do you want', I said".

I completely agree. The comma is useful there.

But why didn't you use a question mark to mark the question?

(The pause is, I suppose, the result of the questioning intonation where the question mark goes.)

I don't think it matters whether it's a question or otherwise. The pause shows that the sentence is inverted.

 

[jutfrank]

Re: If I said, "I gave him a good advice" vs If I said "I gave him a good advice" (co

What's the point in using comma before in my opinion"?

It's funny you noticed that because I only added it at the last minute. On reading my post before pressing 'submit' I decided a pause there worked well.

There are two independent clauses in this sentence. Shouldn't there be a comma before but?
(https://www.grammarly.com/blog/comma-before-but/)

No.

 

[emsr2d2]

Re: If I said, "I gave him a good advice" vs If I said "I gave him a good advice" (co

But why didn't you use a question mark to mark the question?

It was a typo, which has now been fixed. Thanks.

 

[Alexey86]

Re: If I said, "I gave him a good advice" vs If I said "I gave him a good advice" (co

No.

But a comma wouldn't be incorrect, right?

Here's what Swan says (Practical English Usage, 3rd edition):

476.1
Clauses connected with and, but or or are usually separated by commas unless they are very short. Compare:
- Jane decided to try the home-made steak pie, and Andrew ordered Dover sole with boiled potatoes.
- Jane had pie and Andrew had fish.

476.9
A comma is generally used between a reporting expression and a piece of direct speech.
He said, 'There's no way we can help her'. (Swan put the full stop after the quotation mark)

 

[jutfrank]

Re: If I said, "I gave him a good advice" vs If I said "I gave him a good advice" (co

But a comma wouldn't be incorrect, right?

You mean after but? No, it wouldn't be incorrect. The comma just makes a pause, that's all. If a writer wants her readers to pause, then that's up to her.

 

[Alexey86]

Re: If I said, "I gave him a good advice" vs If I said "I gave him a good advice" (co

You mean after but? No, it wouldn't be incorrect. The comma just makes a pause, that's all. If a writer wants her readers to pause, then that's up to her.

I mean before but: "It certainly has been customary in the past to use a comma (independent clause), but I believe this is changing (independent clause)."

 

[jutfrank]

Re: If I said, "I gave him a good advice" vs If I said "I gave him a good advice" (co

Oops. I meant before but too.