If I won the lottery (2nd conditional)

[lagoo]

(1) If I won the lottery, I would buy a car.
It is impossible to win the lottery, because you haven't bought a ticket. You are imagining what you would do if you had bought a ticket and you won.


(2) If it rained at my party, I would cry.
You are imagining you are having a party. You would cry if it rained.

The above examples and explanations are from https://www.theenglishspace.com/grammar/conditionals.html

Here are my questions:
Assuming that I did buy a ticket in (1), but I repent having buying it because I think it's a waste of money and my odds of winning the lottery will be extremely slim.
Can I still use the same sentence as (1)?

It comes the similar question in (2): I am not imagining having a party, but I am indeed having a party this afternoon. After I checked the weather forecast, I am quite sure there will be no rain this afternoon.
In this situation, can I use (2) to express the impossibility of raining. In other words, I'm just imagining it is raining.

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

(1) If I won the lottery, I would buy a car.
It is impossible to win the lottery, because you haven't bought a ticket. You are imagining what you would do if you had bought a ticket and you won.

(2) If it rained at my party, I would cry.
You are imagining you are having a party. You would cry if it rained.

The above examples and explanations are from https://www.theenglishspace.com/grammar/conditionals.html

Here are my questions:
Assuming that I did buy a ticket in (1), but I repent having buying it because I think it's a waste of money and my odds of winning the lottery will be extremely slim, then can I still use the same sentence as (1)?

Yes.

It becomes a similar question [or: it is a similar question] in (2): I am not imagining having a party, but I am indeed having a party this afternoon. After I checked the weather forecast, I am quite sure there will be no rain this afternoon.
In this situation, can I use (2) to express the impossibility of raining? In other words, I'm just imagining it is raining.

Yes.

However, if rain is a possibility, that means the party is in the future. So you'd be more likely to say: If it rains at my party, I'll cry.

You could also say: If it were to rain at my party, I would cry.

If the party is happening now, you'd probably say: If it were raining at my party, I'd be crying.

Rain is only impossible if the party had already happened. Then you'd be more likely to say: If it had rained at my party, I would have cried.

I hope that helps!

 

[jutfrank]

Assuming that I did buy a ticket in (1), but I repent having buying it because I think it's a waste of money and my odds of winning the lottery will be extremely slim.
Can I still use the same sentence as (1)?

Not really, no. As long as you're still in the game, you can still win, so you would use a real conditional.

It comes the similar question in (2): I am not imagining having a party, but I am indeed having a party this afternoon. After I checked the weather forecast, I am quite sure there will be no rain this afternoon.
In this situation, can I use (2) to express the impossibility of raining. In other words, I'm just imagining it is raining.

No. For the same reason as above.

 

[jutfrank]

If you see your chances of winning as slim, the the second condition is fine.

If you see your chances of winning as real, then you would use a real conditional, no matter how slim. I'm finding it hard to imagine someone thinking hypothetically in this situation.

 

[emsr2d2]

I have said (far too often) "If I won the lottery, I would buy a huge house in Spain, but since I never buy a lottery ticket, I can safely say it's never going to happen!"

 

[jutfrank]

I have said (far too often) "If I won the lottery, I would buy a huge house in Spain, but since I never buy a lottery ticket, I can safely say it's never going to happen!"

And if you did have a ticket, do you think you would still say the same thing? Even if your chances of winning were a billion to one?

The difference between If I win the lottery, I will buy a car and If I won the lottery I would buy a car is simply that the speaker of the second presents the possibility of winning as less real than the speaker of the first.

It's not a matter of being more or less real—that doesn't make a lot of sense. Why is there a need to compare one utterance with another? What exactly is the comparison? And at what point on a perceived scale of reality would effect a speaker to change from one perspective to the other?

It's about a perception of it being real or unreal, not about how real. The distancing effected by the backshift is not gradable. How could it be?

I'll admit that it's conceivable at least to imagine that a speaker who has a ticket could present his chance of winning as zero (he'd be wrong), and that somebody without a ticket could present his chance of winning as a real possibilty (he's also be wrong), but neither of these would be likely.

 

[emsr2d2]

And if you did have a ticket, do you think you would still say the same thing? Even if your chances of winning were a billion to one?

If I had actually bought a ticket, I would say "If I win the lottery, I'll buy ...". However, that might be because I buy a lottery ticket about once every two years. It's entirely possible that if I habitually bought a ticket or was part of a syndicate, I might use "If I won ..., I would ...".

 

[jutfrank]

If I had actually bought a ticket, I would say "If I win the lottery, I'll buy ...". However, that might be because I buy a lottery ticket about once every two years. It's entirely possible that if I habitually bought a ticket or was part of a syndicate, I might use "If I won ..., I would ...".

Interesting. Why do you think how often you buy a ticket affects your choice of what to say? Does it seem that you're less likely to win if you play more often?

 

[emsr2d2]

I think it's more to do with how likely I am to be thinking about the win. I only buy a ticket when there's a massive jackpot so I actually take notice of the draw that night. On that basis, I'd be more likely to talk about it in terms of "If I win ...", in the few minutes leading up to the draw. On the weeks that I don't buy a ticket, I take no notice of the draw so I'd be saying "If I won ..." only if someone said "If you won the lottery, what would you do?"

 

[GoesStation]

It would take a miracle for me to win if I bought a ticket. I figure it would be an even more impressive miracle if I won without having done so, so I don't bother.

 

[Tarheel]

(1) If I won the lottery, I would buy a car.
It is impossible to win the lottery, because you haven't bought a ticket. You are imagining what you would do if you had bought a ticket and you won.


(2) If it rained at my party, I would cry.
You are imagining you are having a party. You would cry if it rained.

The above examples and explanations are from https://www.theenglishspace.com/grammar/conditionals.html

Here are my questions:
Assuming that I did buy a ticket in (1), but I regret having bought it because I think it was a waste of money and my odds of winning the lottery are extremely slim.
Can I still use the same sentence as (1)?

It comes the similar question in (2): I am not imagining having a party, but I am indeed having a party this afternoon. After I checked the weather forecast, I am quite sure there will be no rain this afternoon.
In this situation, can I use (2) to express the impossibility of raining. In other words, I'm just imagining it is raining.

Please note my corrections in paragraph three. (If you win the lottery you won't regret having bought a ticket anymore. ;-) )

 

[jutfrank]

1. We can ask Mary about it when she comes tomorrow.
2. We can ask Mary about it if she come tomorrow.
3. We could ask Mary about it if she came tomorrow.
4. We could ask Mary about it if she were here now.

As we move from #1 to #4, we see the speaker's presentation of how real/certain/likely the presence of Mary is.

1. Absolute certainty - future 'reality.
2. Future real possibility.
3. Future less likely possibility.
4. Purely hypohetical, counter-factual, unreal situation.

Where I disagree is on point 3 only, both on the acceptability of the example, and its interpretation.

We're probably going to have to just agree to disagree before we get too deep into this. I'm seeing 1 and 2 as real and 4 as unreal. The degree of certainty the speaker has of Mary's presence is not actually related, I would argue.

 

[jutfrank]

Do you question the acceptability of these?

No, of course not. These are all clear examples of unreal hypotheticals. Are you saying they're not?

 

[jutfrank]

In the sentences I listed, there is a possibility, albeit remote, of the situations happening. They are not, at the time of being uttered, counterfactual.

What I mean is that they are purely imaginary in the mind of the speaker. That is, the speaker is operating as if they were unreal. Take the first of your examples:

If they came out with a pill tomorrow that was safe and made you healthy, I'd take it.

I don't think the speaker, if pushed, would maintain that the possibility of them coming out with a pill tomorrow is absolutely zero. But my point is that she considers the situation as unreal. She's speaking hypothetically. She's showing the listener that the action signified by the verb phrase occurs only in the imagination. This is where the distancing comes from. It just happens that this hypothetical situation takes place in a hypothetical tomorrow.

I actually think it's unhelpful to talk of future counterfactuality. The future cannot of course be contrary to fact, as no fact has yet been established to be contrary to.