Leonardo da Vinci is considered to be/to have been one of ...

[dorax]

Leonardo da Vinci is considered to be/to have been one of the greatest artists of all time. Are both these structures correct?

 

[jutfrank]

If you're going to use 'of all time' you need to talk about him in the present:

He is one of the greatest artists of all time.
He is considered to be one of the greatest artists of all time.

With a past time phrase, you can talk about him in the past:

He was one of the greatest artists of the 15th century.
He is considered to have been one of the greatest artists of the 15th century .

 

[dorax]

One more question about the impersonal passive. Are the following sentences both correct?
It is believed that he fled the scene before the police arrived.
It is believed he had fled the scene before the police arrived.

 

[jutfrank]

It is believed that he fled the scene before the police arrived.
It is believed he had fled the scene before the police arrived.

The choice of whether to use a perfect aspect in the second clause has no dependence on the 'It is believed' part, if that's what you're asking.

 

[dorax]

The choice of whether to use a perfect aspect in the second clause has no dependence on the 'It is believed' part, if that's what you're asking.

If the impersonal passive does not affect the sentence, then we can say that only the second one is correct, as the action further in the past is in the past perfect, or is the first one also correct if we don't want to put emphasis on the sequence of events?

 

[Piscean]

The word 'before' means that the past perfect is not essential. It would be a different story if the writer had used 'when'.

 

[jutfrank]

we can say that only the second one is correct, as the action further in the past is in the past perfect

No, we can't say that at all.

The word 'before' is more than enough to make the sequence of events perfectly clear.

[cross-posted]

 

[BobK]

FYI @dorax : In contexts where word-count is important this sort of impersonal passive can be 'personalized' - 'He is believed to have fled...'

 

[dorax]

FYI @dorax : In contexts where word-count is important this sort of impersonal passive can be 'personalized' - 'He is believed to have fled...'

What kind of contexts? An example?

 

[dorax]

The word 'before' means that the past perfect is not essential. It would be a different story if the writer had used 'when'.

I thought that when we see the word 'before' we need to use the past perfect simple, at least this is what I have learned and read in theory. Could it be that in practice and in everyday written and spoken language this changes?

 

[5jj]

I thought that when we see the word 'before' we need to use the past perfect simple, at least this is what I have learned and read in theory.

The past perfect is usually not essential with before. Compare the following.

1. He left when I arrived. The leaving happens at the same time as the arriving.
2. He had left when I arrived. The leaving happens before the arriving.
3. He (had left) before I arrived. The leaving happens before the arriving. The past perfect is unnecessary in any register.

 

[Rover_KE]

this

 

[dorax]

The past perfect is usually not essential with before. Compare the following.

1. He left when I arrived. The leaving happens at the same time as the arriving.
2. He had left when I arrived. The leaving happens before the arriving.
3. He (had left) before I arrived. The leaving happens before the arriving. The past perfect is unnecessary in any register.

Yes, it's clear now. Are there any other words like 'before' for which the past perfect is unnecessary? 'After' maybe?

 

[emsr2d2]

Yes, it's clear now. Are there any other words like 'before' for which the past perfect is unnecessary? 'After' maybe?

Why don't you try to come up with some sentences of your own?

 

[BobK]

What kind of contexts? An example?

I was thinking of such things as news reports (especially in the print media - particularly when columns are narrow).