Life is not a bed of roses, and even if it was, there are sharp thorns

[cubezero3]

A friend of mine came to me with the following sentence the other day. It was said to have been written by a Chinese person from a local high school.

Life is not a bed of roses, and even if it was, there are sharp thorns to scratch your skin.

Normally I would not pay much attention to test papers from local middle schools. This structure really interested me. At first, I thought it contained an error and therefore should be rewritten in the following way: even if it was, there would be sharp thorns. We have been told life is not a bed of roses. Here we clearly have a conditional.
However, the more I think about it, the more strongly I feel that perhaps the person who wrote the sentence could get away with it. The fact that there are sharp thorns is not based on the assumption that life is a bed of roses. Well, it could be, as there will not be thorns if we don't have roses in the first place. But the connection, I feel, is not as strong as in the case of If it rains tomorrow, I will not go to school. Can I see even if as an independent phrase in its own light, rather than a combination of even with if, which is used to start a conditional? I have a feeling that perhaps the second half of the quoted sentence could be interpreted as a mixture of the first half of a conditional sentence (even if it was), and a general statement (there are sharp thorns).
I'd like to hear your opinions.

 

[Tarheel]

Was it a high school student or a middle school student who wrote that? In either case, if that's a typical sentence from that individual their English is at a high level.

 

[cubezero3]

I should have made it more clear. This sentence was from a high school test paper. I'd assume it was written by a teacher.

 

[Tarheel]

Sorry! You did say you saw it on a test paper.

You would hope that anybody teaching English would have a high level of proficiency, and this person apparently does. That's not your question though, is it?

I'm sure there's a question in your post somewhere.

 

[cubezero3]

Yes, there is and I should have put down my question in a more straight forward way.
When I first saw the sentence, I felt it was wrong.
My reasoning was as follows:
The writer says life is a bed of roses and goes on to say let's assume it's not. This, together with the use of even if it was, seem to suggest the writer intends for this sentence to be a conditional.
In this case, I think it should be written as:

and even if it was, there would be sharp thorns to scratch your skin

In the original sentence, the writer uses the simple present tense:

and even if it was, there are sharp thorns to scratch your skin

Later, there was a voice in my mind telling me that may be this sentence is after all correct.
A typical conditional sentence would be like this:

If it rains, I will stay at home.

In this case, the first part of the sentence is, indeed, a condition.
In the sentence quoted from the test paper, this relationship is not as clear. So much so that it may be seen as a mixture of the first part of a conditional sentence (i.e. even if it was), and a general statement (i.e. there are sharp thorns).
According to the grammar rules I've learnt, if the quoted sentence is indeed a conditional, it contains an error. That's the usage of if. And there's no way around it. The addition of even in the front merely serves what an adverb does: it adds an extra bit of meaning to the conditional.
Then an idea came to my mind. What if even if is a phrase in its own light?
We can work out the meaning of go down, by simply putting the meanings of go and down together.
However, if we apply the same method, we would miss a very common meaning of look up, that is to check the meaning of a word in a dictionary.
The usage of if is that it connects two sentences and creates a longer conditional sentence, and tense changes happen to both legs that form the conditional sentence.
Maybe the usage of even if is different, and it can be used to link up the first part of a conditional (even if it was) and a general statement (there are sharp thorns), therefore justifying the quoted sentence?

 

[Tarheel]

The issue here is time. You might be right that the original sentence is not perfect, but how much time (if any) should be spent worrying about it?

It's all about time. How much time do you want to invest on this?

I could make that last sentence into a question, but it would take time. (I have a chess puzzle to work on.)

 

[jutfrank]

At first, I thought it contained an error and therefore should be rewritten in the following way: even if it was, there would be sharp thorns.

Right. To be more correct the verb 'be' should be in the subjunctive:

and even if it were, there would be sharp thorns

there will not be thorns if we don't have roses in the first place.

Quite right. The speaker is saying that life is not a bed of roses, the consequence being that there are not any sharp thorns. The sentence then is a hypothetical conditional.

But the connection, I feel, is not as strong as in the case of If it rains tomorrow, I will not go to school.

That's not hypothetical. That's what some people call a 'real' condition. The one we're discussing is unreal.

Can I see even if as an independent phrase in its own light, rather than a combination of even with if, which is used to start a conditional?

I really don't understand your question here but I'm quite sure the answer is no. The use of 'even' has no relevance to the fact that this is a hypothetical.

I have a feeling that perhaps the second half of the quoted sentence could be interpreted as a mixture of the first half of a conditional sentence (even if it was), and a general statement (there are sharp thorns).

Yes, I think that's exactly right. If this were a native speaker producing the sentence, I'd say that she got lost halfway through, resulting in a sentence that doesn't make good sense. Since it was written by a learner, I'd just count it as a learner error. The problem, as you correctly identify, is that it starts off as a hypothetical (there are no thorns) and then ends up suggesting that it's real (there are thorns). That's why it's wrong—it's self-contradictory.

 

[emsr2d2]

The other day, a friend of mine came to me with the following sentence, taken from a test paper. the other day. It was said to have been They told me it was written by a Chinese person from a local high school.

Life is not a bed of roses, and even if it was, there are sharp thorns to scratch your skin.

Normally I would not pay much attention to test papers from local middle schools. This structure really interested me. At first, I thought it contained an error and therefore should be rewritten in the following way: even if it was, there would be sharp thorns. We have been told life is not a bed of roses. Here we clearly have a conditional.
However, the more I think about it, the more strongly I feel that perhaps the person who wrote the sentence could get away with it. The fact that there are sharp thorns is not based on the assumption that life is a bed of roses. Well, it could be, as there will not wouldn't be thorns if we don't didn't have roses in the first place. But However, I feel that the connection , I feel, is not as strong as in the case of If it rains tomorrow, I will not go to school. Can I see even if as an independent phrase in its own light right, rather than a combination of even with and if, which is used to start a conditional? I have a feeling that perhaps the second half of the quoted sentence could be interpreted as a mixture of the first half of a conditional sentence (even if it was), and a general statement (there are sharp thorns).
I'd like to hear your opinions.

Please note my changes above.

I'm going to be pedantic and point out that the original should have used the subjunctive "... even if it were". I can't say the final clause is completely wrong but I would prefer "... even if it were, it would have thorns that could scratch you".

(Cross-posted with jutfrank)

 

[jutfrank]

Then an idea came to my mind. What if even if is a phrase in its own light?

Maybe the usage of even if is different, and it can be used to link up the first part of a conditional (even if it was) and a general statement (there are sharp thorns), therefore justifying the quoted sentence?

No, you're on the wrong track here. Forget this idea.