My teacher suggested to us that we/they should go for a picnic.

[Tait-ka]

Hi.

My teacher said to us, "Let's go for a picnic."
My teacher suggested to us that we/they should go for a picnic.

The coach said to the players, “Let’s practice harder.”
The coach suggested to the players that we/they should practice harder.

The teacher said to the class, “Let’s start the lesson.”
The teacher suggested to the class that we/they should start the lesson.

I created these examples. The reported speech sentences are bolded. I have confusion about the use of pronoun. I don't know which pronoun I should use there. We or they? I need your help.

 

[5jj]

I have confusion am confusED about the use of pronoun. I don't know which pronoun I should use there. We or they?

Use 'we' if the speaker is a member of the group that should do something, 'they' if they are not.

 

[Tait-ka]

Use 'we' if the speaker is a member of the group that should do something, 'they' if they are not.

let's = let us: used by a speaker to express to suggest that he or she and those being addressed do something: let's go somewhere else.

The above definition of "let's" is from Collins Concise English Dictionary.

The definition says that the speaker is a member of the group that should do something. It doesn't exclude the speaker.
So I am confused.

 

[5jj]

Hi.


My teacher said to us, "Let's go for a picnic."
My teacher suggested to us that we should go for a picnic.

The speaker is a member of the group.

The coach said to the players, “Let’s practice harder.”
The coach suggested to the players that we/they should practice harder.

The teacher said to the class, “Let’s start the lesson.”
The teacher suggested to the class that we/they should start the lesson.

Only the speaker knows if they are a member of the group. They will know which pronoun is appropriate.

 

[Tait-ka]

Only the speaker knows if they are a member of the group. They will know which pronoun is appropriate.

In these two examples, the coach and the teacher are the speakers. They definitely know that. But the reporter is someone else. Say it's me. How can I (as a reporter) know whether the speaker is a member or not? And which pronoun will I use then?

 

[Tait-ka]

And you didn't comment on post#3.

 

[5jj]

The speaker is a member of the group.

Only the speaker knows if they are a member of the group. They will know which pronoun is appropriate.

By 'speaker' I meant the reporter. If the reporter uses the word we, then they are a member of the group referred to. If they use the word they, then they are not.

 

[Tait-ka]

The first person of the reported speech changes according to the subject of reporting speech:
She says, "I am in tenth class."
She says she is in tenth class.

The second person of reported speech changes according to the object of reporting speech:
He says to them, "You have completed your job."
He tells them that they have completed their job.

The third person of the reported speech doesn't change:
She says, "She is in tenth class."
She says that she is in tenth class.

Source: https://www.olabs.edu.in/englishlab/jsp/reportedSpeechActivityJSP/theory.html


@5jj, please see the pronoun change rule quoted above in red colour.

Let's take the first example:
My teacher said to us, "Let us go for a picnic."

According to this red rule, the first person pronoun "us" in the above example should change according to the subject of reporting speech, which is "my teacher". But "my teacher" is a noun phrase, not a pronoun. So how can this rule be applied here? I'm confused here.

 

[5jj]

Think less about rules and word classes and more about the real-life people being referred to.

My teacher said to us, "Let us go for a picnic."

My teacher - the speaker's teacher
(to) us - the speaker and other members of their group (not including the teacher)
(Let) us - the speaker, other members of their group and the teacher

 

[Tait-ka]

Thinkless about rules and word classes and more about the real-life people being referred to.


My teacher - the speaker's teacher
(to) us - the speaker and other members of their group (not including the teacher)
(Let) us - the speaker, other members of their group and the teacher

Sorry. I don't understand your answer.

 

[5jj]

I can't make it any plainer. Perhaps somebody else will be able to.

 

[Tait-ka]

Can someone please reply to my post#3 and #8? Two different confusions.

 

[Tait-ka]

I can't make it any plainer. Perhaps somebody else will be able to.

Hi @5jj,

My teacher said to us, "Let us go for a picnic."

According to rule 1, the blue "us" (which is a first person pronoun) should change according to the red "my teacher" (which is the subject of the reporting part).
But when we make an indirect speech of it, i.e. "My teacher suggested to us that we should go for a picnic", why do we change the blue "us" to the green "we"? The blue "us" should change according to the red "my teacher", shouldn't it?

 

[Skrej]

Source: https://www.olabs.edu.in/englishlab/jsp/reportedSpeechActivityJSP/theory.html

I don't know if I've ever seen such a convoluted and unnecessarily complicated explanation. I propose you ignore any source that fiddles with uses of 'hither' , 'thither', 'hence' and 'thence'.

Let's take the first example:
My teacher said to us, "Let us go for a picnic."

According to this red rule, the first person pronoun "us" in the above example should change according to the subject of reporting speech, which is "my teacher". But "my teacher" is a noun phrase, not a pronoun. So how can this rule be applied here? I'm confused here.

You'll notice that Rule 5, subsection 4, article 15, paragraph 14.3.2, etc., etc. says "Change in Pronouns". If it's not a pronoun, don't change it.

Right above your rule it says "The pronouns of the Direct Speech are changed where necessary, according to their relations with the reporter and his hearer, rather than with the original speaker." (emphasis mine)

In your example sentence, the teacher is the original speaker. Nothing changes because (a) 'teacher' isn't a pronoun and (b) the relationships between the reporter (you) and the hearers (your audience) haven't changed.

Also, there seems to be an error in the examples on Rule 5 anyway - the example for reported (indirect) speech is exactly the same as the example for direct speech. It should say "She said she was in tenth class".

Presenting those pronoun changes as an absolute checklist is a great example of unnecessarily complicating the issue. Better to say "You may need to change pronouns in the reported speech to reflect perspective changes".

Those examples are also very odd in that they're using the present tense. Typically we use the past tense for direct speech.

Finally - the structure of "someone said something to someone" isn't used very much, at least in AmE. It sounds kind of antiquated to my ear, and I advise my students to use either "Someone said something" or "Someone told someone something"

I think you'll be better served by looking at some alternate explanations for reported speech. This one, while still fairly lengthy and detailed, is full of examples versus a list of prescriptive rules to memorize. It's also free (as far as I noticed) of errors and false examples.

There are of course numerous other sites offering instruction on reported speech, many of which I'm sure will be less confusing and more helpful than that horrible source you're using now.

 

[Tarheel]

I think you would be better off asking one question at a time.

If the teacher says, "Let's go on a picnic" is he including himself or not? What makes the most sense?

 

[jutfrank]

My teacher said to us, "Let's go for a picnic."
My teacher suggested to us that we should go for a picnic.

Look at the highlighted pronouns. Only we works in the transformed sentence. The speaker is included in the referenced group.

The coach said to the players, “Let’s practice harder.”
The coach suggested to the players that they should practice harder.

In this pair, it's obvious that the speaker is not included in the group of players, so only they is correct.

 

[Tait-ka]

In this pair, it's obvious that the speaker is not included in the group of players

I don't understand how the speaker (i.e. the coach) is not included in the group of players. When he says "let us", it clearly tells us that he is including himself in the players.

 

[emsr2d2]

I don't understand how the speaker (i.e. the coach) is not included in the group of players. When he says "let us", it clearly tells us that he is including himself in the players.

No. He's the coach, not a player. He doesn't need to practice harder. When he says "Let's", he means "You should all"! It's a common way for people to politely suggest that someone else do something.

Parent: Come on, Tommy. Let's put your toys away, shall we? (The speaker doesn't plan to help!)
Teacher: Right, let's get started on this exam. (The teacher isn't taking the exam. The students they're speak to are.)

 

[Tait-ka]

When he says "Let's", he means "You should all"! It's a common way for people to politely suggest that someone else do something.

But the below definition says that the speaker is also included in the group.

let's = let us: used by a speaker to express to suggest that he or she and those being addressed do something: let's go somewhere else.

Source: Collins Concise English Dictionary

The definition says that the speaker is a member of the group that should do something. It doesn't exclude the speaker.

So I am confused.

 

[5jj]

The definition says that the speaker is a member of the group that should do something. It doesn't exclude the speaker.

The definition is generally correct, but it does not cover every situation, as jutfrank and emsr2d2 have shown you.