neede to do vs needed to have done

[ostap77]

A) Did you do your homework you needed to do for today's class?

B) Did you do your homework you needed to have done for today's class?

1)What would be the difference in meaning between the two sentences?

" What grounds did we have for removing him? " Mr. Maloney asked. " He needed to have done certain things wrong, to have violated rules and regulations. "

Is "needed to have done" here close in meaning to " must have done"?

 

[White Hat]

" What grounds did we have for removing him? " Mr. Maloney asked. " He needed to have done certain things wrong, to have violated rules and regulations. "

Is "needed to have done" here close in meaning to " must have done"?

No, it's rather not.
"must have done" implies a strong possibility, whereas "needed to have done" here implies the person could be removed if he had done "certain things wrong" and "violated rules and regulations".

 

[ostap77]

Doesn't the first part "What grounds........" suggest that there could have been grounds for removing him? You kind of skiped my first question.

 

[White Hat]

- How can we remove him?
- Well, he needs to have done something wrong.
- Like what?
- We need him to violate some rules and regulations.
- Is it that simple?
- I guess.

 

[White Hat]

You kind of skipPed my first question.

Both are grammatically correct, although I wouldn't use the 2nd one - it's too clunky for an idea that simple.

 

[ostap77]

Would there be a difference between "he needed to do something wrong" and "needed to have done something wrong"?

 

[White Hat]

Would there be a difference between "he needed to do something wrong" and "needed to have done something wrong"?

If he needed to do something wrong, then he was some kind of a bad boy - he would feel great beating someone up or breaking something.

If he needed to have done something wrong, there may have been an imperious reason for that. For instance, in jail he would move up the hierachical ladder if he had done something wrong in the street.

 

[ostap77]

What about post#1 question 1? I've been waiting for an answer since morning.

What about this sentence " I was torn. I didn't know what to do. I know what it feels like to be hurting for money and in bad shape. We're in the same position, my family. So I felt I needed to do something."? Again any differnce with "needed to have done something" here?

 

[White Hat]

Yes, there is. He needed to do something (get a job, work, make money) - something in the nearest future.
You can say He needed to have his homework done.

Why are you struggling with this? It's not worth it. There is a slight difference between those. I hope if you've read my explanations above you'll get the idea without a hitch.

 

[ostap77]

It's alwasy been worth doing it otherwise I wouldn't be learning English. So there wouldn't be any difference, if I substituted "needed to have done" for "needed to do"?

 

[White Hat]

Wait for native speakers to have their say, then.

 

[ostap77]

And I wonder if we could say "in the nearest future"?

 

[emsr2d2]

And I wonder if we could say "in the nearest future"?

No.

 

[ostap77]

But it's in Bennevis' post #9. " Yes, there is. He needed to do something (get a job, work, make money) - something in the nearest future. " Well, the guy has been giving answers to my questions which leads me to think there could have been other discrepancies.

 

[emsr2d2]

In my experience, Bennevis rarely makes errors but even native speakers make slipups. The usual phrase would be "in the very near future".

 

[ostap77]

Could you please refer to post#1 question#1 and post#8? I would appreciate a native speaker giving their answers.

 

[White Hat]

And I wonder if we could say "in the nearest future"?

Huddersfield Literature Festival

The “M Y Alam book launch” event (Saturday, 19th of March 2011 – Sleepers Bar) has been postponed, and will take place in the nearest future (TBC). If you have bought a ticket already you can still use it for this event, exchange it for other festival events or get your money back. Please contact the LBT Box Office (01484 430528)

This is from a British website. I learn from native speakers. Their mistakes are my mistakes!

 

[White Hat]

Are you suggesting that all these native speakers are wrong?

"Business people need to know how their partners are going to perform in the nearest future as they need to make proper management decisions. Company credit checks may identify the likelihood of a potential bankruptcy or company’s going out of business."

"We had a spring clean yesterday (22.12.2009) and we are very happy we've chosen Green Clean Solution. The house has never been this clean. The team was very efficient, hard-working and very friendly. Thanks a lot! We'll be seeing you again in the nearest future."


"To receive an application form and for all information on application process please contact the Safety of Sports Grounds Team on the details below.
Please note that an online application facility will be available in the nearest future."

 

[Raymott]

Are you suggesting that all these native speakers are wrong?

"Business people need to know how their partners are going to perform in the nearest future as they need to make proper management decisions. Company credit checks may identify the likelihood of a potential bankruptcy or company’s going out of business."

"We had a spring clean yesterday (22.12.2009) and we are very happy we've chosen Green Clean Solution. The house has never been this clean. The team was very efficient, hard-working and very friendly. Thanks a lot! We'll be seeing you again in the nearest future."


"To receive an application form and for all information on application process please contact the Safety of Sports Grounds Team on the details below.
Please note that an online application facility will be available in the nearest future."

That's a new phrase to me too.

 

[bhaisahab]

Are you suggesting that all these native speakers are wrong?

"Business people need to know how their partners are going to perform in the nearest future as they need to make proper management decisions. Company credit checks may identify the likelihood of a potential bankruptcy or company’s going out of business."

"We had a spring clean yesterday (22.12.2009) and we are very happy we've chosen Green Clean Solution. The house has never been this clean. The team was very efficient, hard-working and very friendly. Thanks a lot! We'll be seeing you again in the nearest future."


"To receive an application form and for all information on application process please contact the Safety of Sports Grounds Team on the details below.
Please note that an online application facility will be available in the nearest future."

Well, I'd say they are wrong.