[Grammar] Omission of WHOM: yes or not?

[The apprentice]

Dear teachers and members:


In the sentences below, I would like to know if what I want to mean it is possible.


1 - I had the opportunity of talking to her; she was certainly a pleasure with whom to talk.

2 - I had the opportunity of talking to her; she was certainly a pleasure to talked with.


I think that in sentence number (2) WHOM was reduced and the preposition WITH added to the verb as if it were a prepositional verb.

QUESTION:

Is WHOM been reduced in the sencond sentence or one of them is ungrammatically written?


As always, I ask for your help and assitance in this issue.

 

[BobK]

1 sounds over-careful.

Would you like another go at the verb in 2?

b

 

[Raymott]

No, it's not a reduced clause. I'd call 1 a wrong understanding of the phrase.
"She is a pleasure to talk to" means "It is a pleasure talking to her". She is not really the pleasure; talking to her is the pleasure.

 

[The apprentice]

Thank you Raymott for replying.

It wasn't a wrong understading, after reading the second sentence I thought a reduction of WHOM might have occurred and consequently I wrote the first one by myself.

 

[The apprentice]

Okay Bobk.

But sentence number one it isn't ungrammatical, is it?, for example:

I saw this sentence (a) and immediately I thought the same as in above.

a) He is a funny guy to hang out with.

b) He is a funny guy with whom you can hang out

 

[tzfujimino]

Hello, The apprentice.:-D

I think BobK is referring to your "[...] a pleasure to talked with."

:-D

 

[Roman55]

a) He is a fun guy to hang out with.

b) He is a funny guy with whom you can hang out.

I am not a teacher.

b) appears to be a rewording of a) in an attempt to not end the sentence with a preposition. I thought this was the over carefulness to which BobK was referring. You should know that this is not an English grammar rule but a grammar myth.

Furthermore, a fun guy is someone out with whom it is fun to hang, and a funny guy is someone who is funny.

 

[tzfujimino]

I am not a teacher.


[...] a fun guy is someone out with whom it is fun to hang, [...]

Hello, Roman.:-D
I've never come across that construction before. Is it very formal English?
It sounds like Yoda's English.:-D

 

[Roman55]

It was just a little irony to make my point. It is hypercorrect and anyone saying that would sound pretentious.

 

[The apprentice]

Dear Roman55:

I mean if the first sentence may also be written as the second one and both be correct. I have heard and read that it's ungrammatical to end a sentece with a preposition, but for me that's a myth too.

 

[Raymott]

I mean if the first sentence may also be written as the second one and both be correct.
a) He is a funny guy to hang out with.
b) He is a funny guy with whom you can hang out.

Do you mean these? They are the most recent pair of sentences you've given.
They are both correct, but they don't mean the same.
b. says that he's essentially a funny guy, and that you can hang out with him.
a. implies he's funny to hang out with. "To hang out with" modifies 'funny'. He might not be funny to study with, for example.
c. "He's a funny guy with whom to hang out" is closer to a. than b. is, but I wouldn't write this.

 

[BobK]

Incidentally, I've written about the fun/funny thing (and why speakers of EFL get it wrong in my blog).

Meanwhile, back at the topic....

b