[Grammar] Perfect participle after "when"'

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Mr.Lucky_One

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Hello.
I want to say: "When I came out of the cafe, I noticed it was raining."
I know I could say "When comming out of the cafe, I noticed it was raining.", but would this sentence also mean "When I was coming out of the cafe, I noticed it was raining."? I guess that it would. If I want to emphasize that I first came out of the cafe and afterwards noticed that it was raining, may I say "When having come out of the cafe, I noticed it was raining."?
 
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Rover_KE

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Your sentences are ungrammatical.

I'd say 'When I left the cafe, I noticed it had rained' or 'When I left the cafe, I noticed it was raining' or 'When I left the cafe, I noticed it had been raining'.
 

Mr.Lucky_One

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Thanks, I have corrected them.
How about the main topic? Is using perfect participle like that ungrammatical too?
 

bhaisahab

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"When I came out of the cafe, I noticed it was raining."
This is OK.
 

philo2009

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Hello.
I want to say: "When I came out of the cafe, I noticed it was raining."
I know I could say "When comming out of the cafe, I noticed it was raining.", but would this sentence also mean "When I was coming out of the cafe, I noticed it was raining."? I guess that it would. If I want to emphasize that I first came out of the cafe and afterwards noticed that it was raining, may I say "When having come out of the cafe, I noticed it was raining."?

Delete 'when' --> Having come out....
 

emsr2d2

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Having come out of the café, I noticed it was raining.

I agree with philo2009 that you can't have "When" at the start of that sentence and have it be a natural sentence.
 

bhaisahab

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Having come out of the café, I noticed it was raining.

I agree with philo2009 that you can't have "When" at the start of that sentence and have it be a natural sentence.

I don't agree. Of course I agree that it's fine with "Having come out..." but I think the OP's sentence is likely to be heard far more often.
 

emsr2d2

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I don't agree. Of course I agree that it's fine with "Having come out..." but I think the OP's sentence is likely to be heard far more often.

I have to disagree. I find "When having come out of the cafe I noticed it was raining" entirely unnatural.

With some punctuation and some extra information at the end of the sentence, it's possible: When, having come out of the café, I noticed it was raining, I decided to get a taxi home.

Of course I agree that "When I came out of the café, I noticed it was raining" is more likely to be heard but philo was commenting (I believe on "When having come out of the cafe ...")
 

bhaisahab

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I have to disagree. I find "When having come out of the cafe I noticed it was raining" entirely unnatural.

With some punctuation and some extra information at the end of the sentence, it's possible: When, having come out of the café, I noticed it was raining, I decided to get a taxi home.

Of course I agree that "When I came out of the café, I noticed it was raining" is more likely to be heard but philo was commenting (I believe on "When having come out of the cafe ...")

I was commenting on this: "I want to say: "When I came out of the cafe, I noticed it was raining." I didn't say anything at all about "When having come out of the cafe I noticed it was raining", which, as you say, is entirely unnatural.
 

emsr2d2

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OK!

- In post #1, the OP suggested "When having come out of the cafe, I noticed it was raining".
- In post #5, philo took that sentence and instructed the OP to remove "When", leaving "Having come out".
- In post #6, you quoted philo's post #5 suggesting that and asked "Why?" I assumed that you couldn't understand why he was suggesting that "When" should be removed from "When having come out of the cafe, I noticed it was raining".

:-D
 

philo2009

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Because perfective participle phrases cannot be preceded by this conjunction!

The preposition 'after', on the other hand, can be inserted (After having Ved...), but is frequently redundant.
 
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