Russia had controlled certain areas of Ukraine since 2014

[EngLearner]

I made up the following dialogue.

A: "What do you know about the war between Russia and Ukraine?"
B: "From what little I know, Russia had controlled certain areas of Ukraine since 2014. So when they invaded in 2022, their ultimate goal was to get control of the remainder that they didn't already control."

Can the "had" in bold be optionally omitted, or is it required for the sentence to be correct?

 

[emsr2d2]

I made up the following dialogue.

A: "What do you know about the war between Russia and Ukraine?"
B: "From what little I know, Russia had controlled certain areas of Ukraine since 2014 no full stop here so when they invaded in 2022, their ultimate goal was to get control of the remainder." that they didn't already control."

Can the "had" in bold be optionally omitted no comma here or is it required for the sentence to be correct?

It's required because of the use of "since" later in the sentence.

Note my changes above. Don't start a sentence with "so". In general, you don't need a comma before "or".

 

[EngLearner]

What is the reference point for the past perfect in the example in post #1? Is it the year 2022?

Suppose I don't want to include the year 2022:

From what little I know, Russia had controlled certain areas of Ukraine since 2014, so when they further invaded Ukraine, their ultimate goal was to get control of the remainder.

Now, the reference point is the event in the when-clause. Does it work like that?

 

[jutfrank]

What is the reference point for the past perfect in the example in post #1? Is it the year 2022?

The point of the invasion, yes.

Suppose I don't want to include the year 2022:

From what little I know, Russia had controlled certain areas of Ukraine since 2014, so when they further invaded Ukraine, their ultimate goal was to get control of the remainder.

Now, the reference point is the event in the when-clause. Does it work like that?

I don't understand what you're doing. What does 'further invaded' mean? You're still talking about the invasion in 2022, right?

 

[EngLearner]

You're still talking about the invasion in 2022, right?

Yes.

I don't understand what you're doing. What does 'further invaded' mean?

The areas they had controlled since 2014 were under their control because they had covertly invaded those areas. They made it appear that the local population had revolted against the government, but those who led the revolt and seized power were acting under orders from Russia. Between 2014 and 2022, there wasn't really a war. In 2022, Russia launched an open, full-scale invasion from the territories it had already captured, trying to capture more territory.

 

[jutfrank]

No, I wasn't asking about history. I was wondering why you changed invaded in 2022 to further invaded Ukraine. I'm trying to understand your question.

 

[EngLearner]

I want to know if a non-stative verb in a when-clause without a time marker such as 2022 can be used as a reference point for the past perfect.

 

[jutfrank]

The reference point is the point of the invasion. Not the verb, or the year in which it happened.

 

[EngLearner]

From what little I know, Russia had controlled certain areas of Ukraine since 2014, so when they invaded it, their ultimate goal was to get control of the remainder.

Is this version correct?

 

[jutfrank]

I still don't get it. Why do you now need to add 'it'? Are you just asking whether it's necessary to say 'in 2022'? No, it isn't necessary if the listener already knows about the invasion. That comes from wider context.