Sentence pattern confusion

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dgquander

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I am trying to determine if the following sentence is a S-V-DO-OC or not.

The officers elected the smartest teacher as president for the union.
 

Route21

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Welcome to the forum.

What do you think and why?
If we know what your problem is, we would be better placed to provide an appropriate answer.

It looks like homework and we don't do your homework.

Regards
R21
 

Frank Antonson

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There is an objective complement in that sentence, as in "The sun made the apples red."
 

5jj

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There is an objective complement in that sentence, as in "The sun made the apples red."

That's fine for The officers elected the smartest teacher president [STRIKE]for[/STRIKE] of the union.

Doesn't it make a difference if we put 'as' before 'president'.
 

Frank Antonson

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That's fine for The officers elected the smartest teacher president [STRIKE]for[/STRIKE] of the union.

Doesn't it make a difference if we put 'as' before 'president'.

I don't think so. "To be" can often be inserted before an objective complement. I suppose that "as" can be also. You don't really need it.

I would call it a function word like "that" in "I think THAT I'm right".

What is an alternative?
 

5jj

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I don't think so. "To be" can often be inserted before an objective complement.
"They elected him to be president:. What's the function of 'to be'?
I suppose that "as" can be also. You don't really need it.
True, but as it's there, we can't ignore it.
I would call it a function word like "that" in "I think THAT I'm right".

What is an alternative?
Well, it seems to me that 'as' functions here as a preposition. If it does (and that's only an 'if', then I think that president must be the object of the preposition, and therefore cannot be an object complement.
 

dgquander

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Does "as" function as a preposition when followed by a noun? If it does, then "The officers elected the smartest teacher president of the union." is a S-V-DO sentence. I think I have figured it out with some good help.

Thank you.
 

5jj

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Does "as" function as a preposition when followed by a noun? If it does, then "The officers elected the smartest teacher president of the union." is a S-V-DO sentence. I think I have figured it out with some good help.
No. That one's S-V-DO-OC. I am pretty sure that Frank and I agree on that. I'll leave it to Frank to confirm that.

My problem is how those who favour this type of analysis deal with that sentence when 'president' is preceded by 'as', and I look forward to Frank's response. He and I have very different views about the value of some types of sentence analysis, but I think that our occasional clashes may help learners realise that there are few absolutes when it comes to analysing language.
 

Frank Antonson

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"As" can certainly be a preposition. But, would the subsequent phrase be adverbial, modifying "elected" by answering "how"? I still think, not.

The concept of "function word" is almost like an additional part of speech. In German the difference between "dass" and "das" illustrates the use of a function word.

Another example is "if" in "I don't know if he will go" or "that" in "I don't know that he will go".

Of course, this is all Reed-Kellogg.

Frank
 

dgquander

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So, if "that" and "as" can be excluded from the phrase without the sentence losing its meaning, then "The officers elected the smartest teacher as president of the union." and "The officers elected the smartest teacher president of the union." mean the same thing.

I did see the sentence "Kim works as a waitress." That sentence is S-V because the verb is intransitive and "as a waitress" is a prepositional phrase according to the example explanation. Now can you see why I am so confused about sentence structures?
 

5jj

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Now can you see why I am so confused about sentence structures?
Yes, but why are you worried about this? Surely what is important is the ability to speak/write English, not the ability to label things.
 

Route21

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Yes, but why are you worried about this? Surely what is important is the ability to speak/write English, not the ability to label things.

Agree 95%. The only thing I could possibly add would be "read". ;-)

Regards
R21
 

dgquander

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I have an interest in knowing what makes a clock tick; it isn't enough for me to just see the hands move.
 

Route21

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Beware of trying to find out what makes a clock tick. You may end up stopping the hands from moving! :lol:
 

Frank Antonson

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I think that you have it right now.

Objective complements sort of "sneak up on you.

On my Youtube channel," Frank Antonson", video"89.1" I teach about objective complements. You might want to take a look at it.

Frank
 
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