The student took the wrong train.

[magic dragon]

Would you answer my question?
A: The student took the wrong train, and he was late for the class.

I'd like to know why "the wrong train" is used, not a wrong one.
I think when the hearer hears the phrase "the wrong train", he/she tries to search for the clue for a definite article being used. However, he/she can't find it.

When you identify "the wrong train", you identify it among many wrong trains.
However, when the students is getting on the train he's going to take, he probably doesn't assume he might take an incorrect train, and there're many wrong trains.
So here the identification (specifying) of a thing among many things doesn't hold.

In my opinion, when you make a right-or-wrong choice, there are only 2 options (a right choice and a wrong choice), and whichever you choose it is specified. Hence there are the right choice and the wrong choice.

Let me give you a similar (I think it similar) example. In "He looked me in the eye" and "He cut himself in the hand", which eye is looked at and which hand is cut don't matter. Neither "the eye" nor "the hand" refers to an individual eye or hand. It is somewhat conceptual.

Similarly "the wrong train" doesn't refer to any individual train. I think "the wrong train" isn't specified among many individual wrong trains and that it's specified in terms of binary opposition (in contrast with the right train).
I'd like your opinions.

 

[emsr2d2]

The train he took was the wrong one. Yes, there might have been other wrong trains available but the one he took is specific. And yes, of course the student didn't purposely get on the wrong train but most people wouldn't say "The student didn't take the right train ...". "the wrong XXX" is very common.

Sorry I'm late. I got on the wrong bus.
You can't come through this gate. You've got the wrong ticket.
No, there's no one called Jonathan here You've got the wrong number.


Having said that, I sympathise with your confusion. It would be wrong to say "He took the wrong turn" rather than "He took a wrong turn" (when more than one wrong turn was available).

Sometimes, there's no definitive explanation for a usage. You just have to memorise it.

 

[Tdol]

Similarly "the wrong train" doesn't refer to any individual train. I think "the wrong train" isn't specified among many individual wrong trains and that it's specified in terms of binary opposition (in contrast with the right train).
I'd like your opinions.

There could have been many wrong trains, but we're not interested in that. It is unique in that he did not take the right train, which is what interests us.

 

[magic dragon]

emsr2d2 said
The train he took was the wrong one. Yes, there might have been other wrong trains available but the one he took is specific.


-- Being specific here means the hearer of "The student took the wrong train" can identify which wrong train the student took, I think. The hearer can't do it. It remains to be seen why a definite article is used in A.


you said
It would be wrong to say "He took the wrong turn" rather than "He took a wrong turn" (when more than one wrong turn was available).


---Of course you're right, but I think "He took the wrong turn" is possible even though there are many possible wrong turns when the speaker is only interested in whether he took the right turn or wrong turn.


I'd like your opinion.

 

[magic dragon]

Tdol said
There could have been many wrong trains, but we're not interested in that. It is unique in that he did not take the right train, which is what interests us.


---Yes, you're right. I think the speaker of "The student took the wrong train" aren't interested in there being individual wrong trains. He / she is only interested in whether the student took the correct train or incorrect train. It can safely be said that the wrong train is specified in terms of binary opposition (in contrast with the right train).
I'd like your opinion.

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

emsr2d2 said
The train he took was the wrong one. Yes, there might have been other wrong trains available but the one he took is specific.

Correct. It was the wrong one, not the right one.

-- Being specific here means the hearer of "The student took the wrong train" can identify which wrong train the student took, I think.

No. The train the student was on was wrong. So because the train was wrong, it was the wrong train.

The hearer can't do it. It remains to be seen why a definite article is used in A.

Because it wasn't the right train.

you said
It would be wrong to say "He took the wrong turn" rather than "He took a wrong turn" (when more than one wrong turn was available).

---Of course you're right, but I think "He took the wrong turn" is possible even though there are many possible wrong turns when the speaker is only interested in whether he took the right turn or wrong turn.

You're right. A wrong turn and the wrong turn are somewhat interchangeable. English isn't always logical (in case you hadn't noticed).

The important thing is to do what you're doing: pay attention how we say things.

I'd like your opinion.

Your question is a good one. In this case, I think it's just a matter of common usage. There might not be a helpful rule to guide you.

Remember that we all learned English one word at a time.

 

[Tarheel]

You could also say:

You went the wrong way.

Meaning: the way you went was not the right way.

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

You could also say:

You went the wrong way.

Meaning: the way you went was not the right way.

Good comment. No one goes a wrong way, even though there are a lot more of those than right ways. (Believe me.)

 

[jutfrank]

I think "the wrong train" isn't specified among many individual wrong trains and that it's specified in terms of binary opposition (in contrast with the right train).
I'd like your opinions.

Yes, I think you're exactly right. You've understood this very well, in my opinion.

 

[magic dragon]

－－Hi, Charlie Bernstein. I said: "He took the wrong turn" is possible even though there are many possible wrong turns when the speaker is only interested in whether he took the right turn or wrong turn.
If I'm right, it follows that when the speaker is not so interested in whether he took the right turn or wrong turn, and has in mind there're other wrong turns, "He took a wrong turn" is possible. Am I right?

You said: A wrong turn and the wrong turn are somewhat interchangeable.
I think it depends on whether the speaker has a strong interest in whether it's the wrong turn or the right turn. Am I right?

By the way is "The student took a wrong train" possible? I think it's impossible, though a few natives say it's possible.
emsr2d2 said
The train he took was the wrong one. Yes, there might have been other wrong trains available but the one he took is specific.
－However, I think you can say, "The train he took was a wrong one. There were other wrong trains available.

I think it's a different case from "a wrong turn", "a wrong answer" and "a wrong decision".
I think wrong turns, wrong answers and wrong decisions are assumed before the act of turning, answering and deciding, so "a wrong turn", "a wrong answer" and "a wrong decision" is possible.
However, in the case of "a wrong train", wrong trains can't possibly assumed before the act of taking an incorrect train. Many people don't assume their taking a wrong train.
And so "take a wrong train" is odd, I think.

After the act of taking an incorrect train, the student, knowing he/she took an incorrect train, it's theoretically possible to say "The student took a wrong train". However, few people use this sentence, probably because the existence of many other trains matters before the act of taking an incorrect train, not before doing it, I think.
I' d like your opinion.

 

[magic dragon]

－－Hi, Tarheel. I agree with you. You mean there're only two options (the right one and the wrong one), don't you?

 

[magic dragon]

－－Thank you very much jutfrank. I meant in this thread that the way you specify "the wrong train" and "the right train" is quite different from the ordinary way of specifying one among many others.

 

[tedmc]

I see "wrong train" as the "wrong option" rather than "wrong train out many wrong trains".

 

[magic dragon]

Hi, tedmc. I agree with you.

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

－－Hi, Charlie Bernstein. I said: "He took the wrong turn" is possible even though there are many possible wrong turns when the speaker is only interested in whether he took the right turn or wrong turn.
If I'm right, it follows that when the speaker is not so interested in whether he took the right turn or wrong turn, and has in mind there're other wrong turns, "He took a wrong turn" is possible. Am I right?

You said: A wrong turn and the wrong turn are somewhat interchangeable.
I think it depends on whether the speaker has a strong interest in whether it's the wrong turn or the right turn. Am I right?

By the way is "The student took a wrong train" possible? I think it's impossible, though a few natives say it's possible.
emsr2d2 said
The train he took was the wrong one. Yes, there might have been other wrong trains available but the one he took is specific.
－However, I think you can say, "The train he took was a wrong one. There were other wrong trains available.

It's certainly grammatical and logical. All I meant above was that it's not how most people would say it. Again, it's a matter of usage, of custom. Most people would use the.

I'm not a linguist or grammarian. So I'm only commenting on usage.

I think it's a different case from "a wrong turn", "a wrong answer" and "a wrong decision".
I think wrong turns, wrong answers and wrong decisions are assumed before the act of turning, answering and deciding, so "a wrong turn", "a wrong answer" and "a wrong decision" is possible.
However, in the case of "a wrong train", wrong trains can't possibly assumed before the act of taking an incorrect train. Many people don't assume they're taking a wrong train.

Right. We assume we're taking the right one.

And so "take a wrong train" is odd, I think.

That makes sense.

After the act of taking an incorrect train, the student, knowing he/she took an incorrect train, it's theoretically possible to say "The student took a wrong train". However, few people use this sentence, probably because the existence of many other trains matters before the act of taking an incorrect train, not before doing it, I think.
I' d like your opinion.

I think you're on the right track!

 

[magic dragon]

－－－Hi, jutfrank
Just a little more please concerning a wrong train.


B: Tom got off as quickly as soon as he realised it was a wrong bus.


C: Mary got on a wrong train, so she was late for the meeting. (a mistaken sentence)


In B Tom (and the speaker), when he got off, knows there are many wrong buses and the one he took was one of those. So "a wrong train" is rightly used. Here "the wrong bus" is also OK if the speaker thinks of "wrong train" in terms of the choice between the right train and the wrong one, I think.


However, in C it's obvious that what matters is the choice between a correct train and an incorrect one. Here Mary (and the speaker) doesn't think of there being many other wrong trains and of course doesn't have interest in distinguishing wrong trains from one another.
The choice here is "right or wrong" one. So "get on / take a wrong train" makes no sense.
Is my explanation right?

 

[emsr2d2]

Regardless of any attempted justification of the use of the indefinite article in B and C, native speakers would use only the definite article in both. (The first "as" in B shouldn't be there, by the way.)

 

[magic dragon]

－－You said, the first "as" in B shouldn't be there. Yes, I miswrote.
If native speakers would use only the definite article in "it was the wrong train" as you say, it follows that "it was the wrong train" includes some type of judgement of right or wrong. Here I think there are only 2 options (the right train and the wrong train) as in "take the wrong train". I have to think so.
After all, I have to think "wrong X" is always preceded by "the". Thank you very much.

 

[Tdol]

After all, I have to think "wrong X" is always preceded by "the". Thank you very much.

Sorry for making your life harder, but this is not always the case. I am afraid that you cannot extrapolate a universal rule. :-(

 

[magic dragon]

Sorry for making your life harder, but this is not always the case.

Wow, it's not always the case! I'm a bit confused. Indeed I know a few native speakers who use "a wrong X". Please show me examples using "a wrong X" I don't care if I can't find a universal rule.