# The temperature at which water boils is higher than that of water

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#### emsr2d2

##### Moderator
Staff member
I know we can change some relative clause sentences into cleft sentences such as "Here is where we met" to "It is here that we met". So how could we change the sentence: "The temperature at which water boils at a higher pressure is higher than that at which it boils at a lower pressure"?

Is this O.K:"It is the temperature that water boils at a higher pressure is higher than water boils at a lower pressure"?

I'm going to regret getting involved in this but never mind.

No, the only way you can match that example construction would be to say:

It is the temperature that water boils at at a higher pressure that is higher than ​the temperature that water boils at at a lower pressure.

I sincerely hope you can see why we just wouldn't ever word it like that.

#### hhtt21

##### Key Member
No, the only way you can match that example construction would be to say:
It is the temperature that water boils at at a higher pressure that is higher than ​the temperature that water boils at at a lower pressure.

Is one of the "at"s overwritten?

#### emsr2d2

##### Moderator
Staff member
I haven't overwritten anything. The construction you're suggesting would require "at at" twice!

#### hhtt21

##### Key Member
Is one of the "at"s overwritten?
Does first at belong to temperature and the second belong to pressure?

I think so because the structures as are "at a temperature" and "at a pressure".

#### tedmc

##### VIP Member
I think it is more concise and scientific to express it this way:

The boiling point/temperature of water increases with the atmospheric pressure.
The boiling point/temperature of water is directly proportional to the atmospheric pressure.

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#### emsr2d2

##### Moderator
Staff member
The main problem with the whole thing is that you have tried to start with "It is" and I have no idea why.

Water boils at a higher temperature [when it is] at a higher pressure than it does when it is at a lower pressure.

#### Rover_KE

##### Moderator
Staff member
The main problem with the whole thing is that you have tried to start with "It is" and I have no idea why.
Beginning with 'It is' creates a cleft sentence, hhtt21. I see no reason for doing so in this case.

#### hhtt21

##### Key Member
The main problem with the whole thing is that you have tried to start with "It is" and I have no idea why.

Water boils at a higher temperature [when it is] at a higher pressure than it does when it is at a lower pressure.

As I denoted in #23 it was a grammatical inspection/search. I tried to do how we can change the sentence using relative clauses into one not using a relative clause, retaning the meaning. I wondered about how it could be changed into a cleft sentence.

#### hhtt21

##### Key Member
Would you please judge this: "Temperature that water boils is less than that oil boils." I ask this because most non-native around me would say the sentence in this way.

#### tedmc

##### VIP Member
Would you please judge this: "Temperature that water boils is less than that oil boils." I ask this because most non-native around me would say the sentence in this way.

I would say:

The temperature at which water boils is lower than that of oil.

or

The boiling point of water is lower than that of oil.

#### Tdol

##### Editor, UsingEnglish.com
Staff member
Would you please judge this: "Temperature that water boils is less than that oil boils." I ask this because most non-native around me would say the sentence in this way.

It doesn't work well for native speakers. Tedtmc's suggestions work better.

#### hhtt21

##### Key Member
It doesn't work well for native speakers. Tedtmc's suggestions work better.

This is a questions of using that versus which in basic, do you agree? That example using that for a relative pronoun also ignores the preposition at. Would you please judge this one?

"Temperature that water boils at is less than that oils boils at"

#### hhtt21

##### Key Member
The temperature that water boils at is lower than that that oil boils at.

It's a clumsy sentence. Just say Water boils at a lower temperature than oil does.
Would you please explain why it is clumsy? Is it grammatically correct to use that instead of which in such a sentence? Yes, your sentence is more straightforward, but the point I try to grasp here is the structure "at which" and its replacement with "that". I am not much interested in what idea is conveyed by the sentence or what message it gaves. I invented the sentences because I have to discuss these structures over examples. I hope I properly expressed what I try to do.

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