# [Grammar]then realized

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#### KJOU

##### Junior Member
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Have you ever done something, then realized there is a better way to do it?

Can I paraphrase this as follows:

Have you ever done something, then realizing there is a better way to do it?

Staff member
No.

#### KJOU

##### Junior Member
Why not?

The following sentence is wrong, either?

I watched the sky for a moment, then realizing it was cloudy.

#### emsr2d2

##### Moderator
Staff member
Why not?

Is the following sentence is wrong too? [STRIKE], either?[/STRIKE]

I watched the sky for a moment, then realizing it was cloudy.

Yes, it's wrong.

The second tense should mirror the first.

#### KJOU

##### Junior Member
Could you tell me why a participial construction works here?

What is the problem with the second example?

I watched the sky for a moment and then realized it was cloudy.

I watched the sky for a moment, then realizing it was cloudy.

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#### tedmc

##### VIP Member
Could you tell me why a participial construction works here?

What is the problem with the second example?

I watched the sky for a moment and then realized it was cloudy.

I watched the sky for a moment, then realizing it was cloudy.

realizing it was cloudy would be a participial phrase which modifies I; then realizing it was cloudy is not.

#### KJOU

##### Junior Member
Thank you for your help.

The bus leaves at 5:00, then reaching the destination, which means "The bus leaves at 5:00, and then reaches the destination."

What is the difference between the two examples?

Does it happen to be a wrong sentence, too ?

Staff member
Yes.

#### tedmc

##### VIP Member
The bus leaves at 5:00, and then reaches the destination.

Your second sentence is correct though the second part does not add anything to it. You could say "...then reaches the destination at 6:00."

Your first sentence would have been correct without "then".

The bus leaves at 5:00, reaching the destination at 6:00.

#### Phaedrus

##### Banned
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Have you ever done something, then realized there is a better way to do it?

Can I paraphrase this as follows:

Have you ever done something, then realizing there is a better way to do it?

The second one would work as a paraphrase if you changed "then realizing there" to "realizing thereupon that." ("Thereupon" is formal.) I'd also change "is" to "was":

Have you ever done something, realizing thereupon that there was a better way to do it?

#### 5jj

##### Moderator
Staff member
Have you ever done something, realizing thereupon that there was a better way to do it?
I would correct any learner who produced that.

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#### Phaedrus

##### Banned
I would correct any learner who produced that.

Do you find something wrong with it? If it is the formality of "thereupon" that you dislike, you (or the learner whom you would correct) can substitute "(up)on doing so."

Have you ever done something, realizing on doing so that there was a better way to do it?

The meaning is exactly the same.

#### 5jj

##### Moderator
Staff member
Do you find something wrong with it?
I think it's something no native speaker would say.

#### Phaedrus

##### Banned
I think it's something no native speaker would say.

If I were in a context that called for the meaning expressed by the sentence that I suggested, then I—a native speaker of English—would use the sentence that I suggested.

#### 5jj

##### Moderator
Staff member
But of course. You are an Unabashed Champion of the Elegantly Old-Fashioned.

#### Phaedrus

##### Banned
I could hear the sentence being used as a rhetorical question in a sermon.

#### emsr2d2

##### Moderator
Staff member
It sounds awkward and old-fashioned to me too. I'd say "Have you ever done something then immediately realised there was a better way to do it?"

#### Phaedrus

##### Banned
It sounds awkward and old-fashioned to me too. I'd say "Have you ever done something then immediately realised there was a better way to do it?"

It is, of course, possible to use an entirely different construction, as you have. My point was simply that the type of construction that the OP had in mind is possible.

(I'm surprised, incidentally, that you did not use "and" before "then." Do you often try to use "then" as a coordinating conjunction between verb phrases?)

It seems to me that the following passage, which I just found online (searching for the construction I recommended), is very well written and not awkward at all:

"Large companies like to say they have this sort of closeness, and indeed they might - until the consumer has to deal with the larger coporate entity, realizing thereupon that all that chuminess was rather superficial and even devious. The answer, I suppose, is to be small, though even as I write that it seems ludicrous and naive" (source).

#### 5jj

##### Moderator
Staff member
very well written and not awkward at all:
You and I have different opinions about that.

#### 5jj

##### Moderator
Staff member
Do you often try to use "then" as a coordinating conjunction between verb phrases?)
I don't think emsr2d2 merely tried. She succeeded, as many people do.

[FONT=arial,sans-serif]Usage Note: [/FONT]Sticklers for grammar sometimes assert that then is not a coordinating conjunction, and that the sentence She took a slice of pie, then left is thus incorrect; it must be rewritten as She took a slice of pie and then left, in which the then acts as an adverb and the halves of the compound predicate are linked by the coordinating conjunction and. But this use of then as a coordinating conjunction is actually both widespread and widely accepted; in our 2012 survey, more than three quarters of the Usage Panel found the sentence She took a slice of pie, then left completely acceptable. Note, though, that the punctuation of this conjunctive use of then differs from the usual punctuation for similar sentences using and. No comma is needed when and links the parts of a compound predicate, as in She took a slice of pie and left. When then joins the halves of the predicate, a comma is usually required; only 8 percent of the Panel approved of She took a slice of pie then left.

https://www.ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=then

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