they're the ones that aren't making very much

[brianok]

usages about "very much"

I heard a native speaker say in a video that "If you look at the hardest workers out there,usually, they're the ones that aren't making very much. The people that are making all the money are the ones not working very hard." Is "much" in the phrase "very much" in the sentence said by the native speaker a noun or a pronoun refering to money? As far as I know, "very much" usually is used to modify verbs or adjectives. So, how so?

 

[5jj]

It's a pronoun,

Very much (determiner} of ten modifies nouns - I don't have very much time/money/food.

 

[brianok]

It's a pronoun,

Very much (determiner} of ten modifies nouns - I don't have very much time/money/food.

If "much" is a pronoun, what is "very"? An adverb modifying the pronoun "much"?

 

[jutfrank]

Read it like this:

... aren't making very much (money).

With the omitted word money in place, you can think of very much as a quantifier. We tend not to articulate the word money when it's obvious from the context that that's what it means. Here are two more examples:

How much (money) do you earn?
It doesn't cost a lot (of money).

 

[5jj]

Read it like this:

... aren't making very much (money).

With the omitted word money in place, you can think of very much as a quantifier.

I agree to an extent. However, the word 'money' is not there, and that, in my opinion, makes 'much' a pronoun. compare:

Whose book is that?
a. It is his book.
b. It is his.
c. It is my book.
d. It is mine.

 

[jutfrank]

However, the word 'money' is not there, and that, in my opinion, makes 'much' a pronoun.

I can't make good sense of that. Firstly, I'd say that the word money is there, unarticulated. The fact that that it is not pronounced doesn't change anything at all about the meaning, so why would it change the grammar?

compare:

Whose book is that?
a. It is his book.
b. It is his.
c. It is my book.
d. It is mine.

I'm not sure what your point is here. Could you make it again, please?

 

[5jj]

a. It is his book.
b. It is his.
c. It is my book.
d. It is mine.
e. I haven't got much money.
f. I haven't got much.

In a, c, and e, the underlined form is clearly not a pronoun..

In d, it fairly clearly is. The fact that the pronoun form in b and f is the same as the non-pronoun form doesn't change this.

 

[5jj]

I can't make good sense of that. Firstly, I'd say that the word money is there, unarticulated.

I don't agree.

 

[brianok]

a. It is his book.
b. It is his.
c. It is my book.
d. It is mine.
e. I haven't got much money.
f. I haven't got much.

In a, c, and e, the underlined form is clearly not a pronoun..

In d, it fairly clearly is. The fact that the pronoun form in b andfe is the same as the non-pronoun form doesn't change this.

If "much" in "very much" in my question is a pronoun, then how does the adverb "very" modify the pronoun "much"? Don't get this.

 

[5jj]

Adverbs can modify noun phrases (including prepositions).

Almost (adverb) everybody (pronoun) agrees about that.

 

[brianok]

Adverbs can modify noun phrases (including prepositions).

Almost (adverb) everybody (pronoun) agrees about that.

Ok, makes sense. But, what do you mean by "including prepositions"? You mean adverbs can also modify prepositions?

 

[jutfrank]

We seem to have different views on this.

In a, c, and e, the underlined form is clearly not a pronoun.

Yes, agreed. I see those as determiners.

In b. and d. respectively, his and mine both stand in for an implied longer NP (his book and my book).

In d, it fairly clearly is.

I think it's better to see the word mine as just a short form of 'my one', which itself includes a pronoun. Similarly. I think it's better to think of his as a short form of 'his one', where 'one'=book. After all, that's what they mean.

The fact that the pronoun form in b andfe is the same as the non-pronoun form doesn't change this

I'm still not sure what you mean. What do you mean by 'the pronoun form in b.'? Aren't you saying b. doesn't include a pronoun? And did you mean 'b and f' or 'b and e'?

I'm not sure where we disagree now.

I can't make good sense of that. Firstly, I'd say that the word money is there, unarticulated.

I don't agree.

I think there's an interesting point to discuss here, if you want to.

 

[jutfrank]

If "much" in "very much" in my question is a pronoun, then how does the adverb "very" modify the pronoun "much"? Don't get this.

As I say, if you think of the word money as omitted, then it's obvious that very modifies much. In other words, it modifies the quantity, by degree.

 

[brianok]

As I say, if you think of the word money as omitted, then it's obvious that very modifies much. In other words, it modifies the quantity, by degree.

Ok, in your opinion, "much" then is an adjective modified by the adverb "very" there, right?

 

[jutfrank]

Adverbs can modify noun phrases (including prepositions).

Almost (adverb) everybody (pronoun) agrees about that.

Again, it comes down to perspective. Mine is that adverbs can't modify nouns. Obviously, everybody was once a two-word phrase (every body). The adverb almost modifies only the 'every' part. Why does the fact that it is now written as one word change this?

 

[5jj]

And did you mean 'b and f' or 'b and e'?

Sorry. That was a typo, now corrected. I meant 'b and f'.

 

[jutfrank]

Ok, in your opinion, "much" then is an adjective modified by the adverb "very" there, right?

No, not an adjective, but yes, very clearly grades much.

 

[5jj]

The adverb almost modifies only the 'every' part. Why does the fact that it is now written as one word change this?

I asked my friends about this, Almost (adverb) all (pronoun) agreed that I should stop boring people. So, I depart.

 

[jutfrank]

Almost (adverb) all (pronoun)

Sorry, but I just can't see the benefits of thinking of all as a pronoun there. I can't see how it isn't completely obvious that it quantifies 'people/friends', so I'd call it a quantifier. I mean, yes, it does substitute for a longer phrase 'all friends' but I think it's simpler and more sensible to say that there's an omission going on.

 

[brianok]

I asked my friends about this, Almost (adverb) all (pronoun) agreed that I should stop boring people. So, I depart.

Seems adverbs do modify pronouns in English in some cases.