times fewer/more

[Verona_82]

Hello,

I asked a similar question some time ago, and it seemed to me I got a handle on the matter. Now I think I'm still having problems with these structures. Could somebody please have a look at the sentences and tell me if they are fine?

1. Tom's 20. Ben's 3 times older than Tom --> Ben's 30.
2. Tom made 12 mistakes a day last year. This year he's made 3 times fewer mistakes --> (12 - 12/3) = 8 mistakes.
3. Ben made 12 mistakes a day last year too. This year he's made 3 times as few mistakes as last year --> (12/3) = 4 mistakes.
4. Tom ate 4 hamburgers yesterday. Today he ate twice (two times?) more hamburgers -- > (4 + 4x2) = 12 hamburgers.
:-|

Thank you.

 

[luschen]

*** Not a teacher ***

I think there is a lot of room for error and misunderstandings in these usages.

I think most people think "three times more" and "three times as many" are synonymous. Personally, I always use "three times as many" in an attempt to avoid confusion.

Tom's 20. Ben's 3 times older than Tom --> The vast majority of English speakers will say Ben's 60.

Tom's 20. Ben's 3 times as old as Tom ---> Ben is 60 - no room for confusion.



I think you are asking for trouble when you say "three times fewer". I would say it means:

Tom made 12 mistakes a day last year. This year he's made 3 times fewer mistakes --> (12/3) = 4 mistakes. But I can see how you could interpret it to get your equation (12 - 12/3) = 8 mistakes

It is much more clear to say "one third as many":

Tom made 12 mistakes a day last year. This year he's made one third as many --> (12/3) = 4 mistakes.

 

[Barb_D]

To continue:

. Tom ate 4 hamburgers yesterday. Today he ate twice (two times?) more hamburgers -- > (4 + 4x2) = 12 hamburgers.

Today he ate twice as many. 4x2=8. He had 8 today.

 

[freezeframe]

I hate to sound like some parents... but, when will they ever need to use this knowledge? :-D

 

[freezeframe]

All I can tell you that I at least never had to use this knowledge in as long as I can remember (which is a very long time) and I don't foresee needing to use it in the future. :-D

Just tell them all to study humanities. :up:

 

[Verona_82]

All I can tell you that I at least never had to use this knowledge in as long as I can remember (which is a very long time) and I don't foresee needing to use it in the future. :-D

It makes this knowledge even more desirable :-D
Ok.

 

[freezeframe]

It makes this knowledge even more desirable :-D
Ok.

Ok.

It was a joke.

 

[mollovi]

I have been arrested 10 times. My brother has been arrested 2 times fewer than me. How many times has my brother been arrested?

 

[~Mav~]

I have been arrested 10 times. My brother has been arrested 2 times fewer than me. How many times has my brother been arrested?

:shock: First off, we usually don't deal with notorious criminals here. :mrgreen: Secondly, IMHO, in order for your brother NOT to have criminal records (no other crimes - or lack of them - involved), he has to be arrested 10 times. :lol: (10-2x10 = -10 & -10 + 10 = 0 :mrgreen: )


PS:

It was a joke.

So was this one. :-D

 

[Verona_82]

I have been arrested 10 times. My brother has been arrested 2 times fewer than me. How many times has my brother been arrested?

I read somewhere that the structure sounds unusual with 'fewer'. Every time I have a sudden urge to say something like that, I begin to have doubts. So I play it safe and kick the urge.

P.S. If I were in the US now, I'd definitely interview a few natives :-D. I guess I'd be given funny stares along with some nice comments on what they think of me and my maths problems, but who cares?

 

[SoothingDave]

How in the heck do you figure Ben is 30?

I don't believe "x times fewer" has any meaning in the English language. I can't imagine anyone using this construction in natural speech. "Times" is by its nature (forgetting fractions, which natives do) an increase in something. "5 times fewer" is nonsense.

 

[Verona_82]

I made a mistake in my OP. I meant 20+(20x3) =80.

I'll explain how I ended up with my question about 'times fewer ". In my language we use 'times fewer' as frequently as 'times more'; the Russian equivalent of 'times' is used to talk about increase and decrese. The word-for-word translation played a trick.