When has he bought/did he buy?

[Rachel Adams]

Hello.

This sentence is from English File. It asks to use either the simple past or the present perfect. Isn't it possible to you both in this example?

1. 'When did your brother buy his motorbike?'

2. 'When has your brother bought his motorbike?'

If I choose to focus on the present result, as Swan says, I can you the present perfect. Right?

 

[GoesStation]

Both sentences are wrong. Number one is grammatically incorrect. Number two uses the tense incorrectly.

 

[Rachel Adams]

Both sentences are wrong. Number one is grammatically incorrect. Number two uses the tense incorrectly.

I corrected it. Do you mean it is not possible to use 'when' with the present perfect?

 

[GoesStation]

I corrected it. Do you mean it is not possible to use 'when' with the present perfect?

The revised sentence one is correct.

You can use the present perfect after "when" in some contexts, but not to describe a single, past activity. For example: I can't find the mushrooms. I've never had this problem when I've been here before.

 

[jutfrank]

The appropriate tense for this question is past simple. You do not wish to focus on the present result.

 

[Rachel Adams]

The appropriate tense for this question is past simple. You do not wish to focus on the present result.

Maybe because the word 'when' itself makes you focus on the moment in the past?

 

[jutfrank]

Maybe because the word 'when' itself makes you focus on the moment in the past?

The whole point of the question is to focus on a moment in the past, yes.

 

[Rachel Adams]

The whole point of the question is to focus on a moment in the past, yes.

If in my sentence I had 'where' instead of 'when' could I use both tenses?
'Where has your brother bought it?' or 'Where did your brother buy it?'

 

[Tarheel]

Hello.

This sentence is from English File. It asks to use either the simple past or the present perfect. Isn't it possible to use either in this example?

1. 'When did your brother buy his motorbike?'
2. 'When has your brother bought his motorbike?'

If I choose to focus on the present result, as Swan says, I can use the present perfect. Right?

The first one is perfectly fine. I would never use the second one.

 

[teechar]

1- Rachel, please do not amend a post after someone has replied to it. That only confuses the thread. Your original read "When did your brother bought his motorbike?" You should have left it as it was and written a new post.

2- The present perfect is appropriate to use when we wish to focus on a present result. In the above, the action is inconsequential. It happened in the past and is not especially important now. Thus, we use the past simple, not the present perfect. However, consider the following examples.

Terry is off for two weeks; he has broken his arm. [e.g. a supervisor saying that in a factory. The action (break arm) took place in the past, but its result/consequence is still relevant]

Someone has moved that chair. [e.g. you notice a chair in the wrong place. The action (move chair) took place in the past, but its result/consequence is still relevant]

3- "When" can be used with the present perfect, especially when referring to a past action at an undetermined time. e.g.
When have I ever called you a liar?

 

[Rachel Adams]

1- Rachel, please do not amend a post after someone has replied to it. That only confuses the thread. Your original read "When did your brother bought his motorbike?" You should have left it as it was and written a new post.

2- The present perfect is appropriate to use when we wish to focus on a present result. In the above, the action is inconsequential. It happened in the past and is not especially important now. Thus, we use the past simple, not the present perfect. However, consider the following examples.

Terry is off for two weeks; he has broken his arm. [e.g. a supervisor saying that in a factory. The action (break arm) took place in the past, but its result/consequence is still relevant]

Someone has moved that chair. [e.g. you notice a chair in the wrong place. The action (move chair) took place in the past, but its result/consequence is still relevant]

3- "When" can be used with the present perfect, especially when referring to a past action at an undetermined time. e.g.
When have I ever called you a liar?

Thank you for your explanation. Does it also apply to 'where'? :shock:

 

[emsr2d2]

Please give us some "Where" sentences to consider.

 

[Rachel Adams]

Please give us some "Where" sentences to consider.

I did. They are in post #8.

 

[jutfrank]

If in my sentence I had 'where' instead of 'when' could I use both tenses?

No, it doesn't make any difference. Only the past simple is appropriate.

 

[Rachel Adams]

No, it doesn't make any difference. Only the past simple is appropriate.

Because the emphasis is on the moment in the past?

 

[jutfrank]

Yes.

 

[Rachel Adams]

Yes.

Is there a list of such words that are commonly used with the past simple? Now I know two. But I was thinking about the word 'why'. 'Why did you buy it?' 'Why have you bought?' I don't want to annoy you or anyone else but the answers I received are very helpful.

 

[emsr2d2]

Is there a list of such words that are commonly used with the past simple? Now I know two. But I was thinking about the word 'why'. 'Why did you buy it?' 'Why have you bought it?' I don't want to annoy you or anyone else but the answers I received are very helpful.

Context is everything. In most scenarios I can think of, "Why did you buy it?" is the most likely but the present perfect version is grammatical.

 

[teechar]

Thank you for your explanation. Does it also apply to 'where'? :shock:

What do you mean?

 

[Phaedrus]

2. [strike]'When has your brother bought his motorbike?'[/strike]

Sometimes we use "when"-questions in the present perfect to imply that something never happened or to express disbelief in something's having happened.

When has your brother ridden his motorbike?

That sentence conveys that he speaker thinks "your brother" has never ridden his motorbike. It asks for a single time of his having ridden it to be specified.

A: My brother has ridden his motorbike.
B: He has? When?

Thus, When has your brother ridden his motorbike? is much different from When did your brother ride his motorbike?, which asks for a set of occasions.

[strike]When has your brother bought his motorbike?[/strike] is nonsense because one cannot do something to make something already one's own become one's own.