When none of them had even put a dent in William's resolve to leave Cambridge immediately . . .

[shootingstar]

(William, the chorister, wants to leave the Choir of King's College, Cambridge, because of family problems)

"When none of them - Phillip, Mr Atkinson, his mother or Robert - had even put a dent in William's resolve to leave Cambridge immediately the only option was for him to stay temporarily with his Uncle while Evelyn (William's mother) got settled in Swansea."

(From A Terrible Kindness by Jo Browning Wroe, Part II Cambridge Choir, chapter 31)

My problem is the adverb 'even' in this sentence. Does 'even' emphasize Phillip (the choir master), Mr Atkinson (the headmaster), his mother and his uncle Robert advised William against leaving the King's College or does it emphasize they didn't raise any objections?

 

[emsr2d2]

In that sentence, it simply emphasises that they had had no effect whatsoever on his resolve to leave. If it helps, you can think of it like this:

They had not even put a dent in his resolve, let alone changed his mind completely.

It doesn't mean that they outright advised him against leaving, nor that they didn't raise any objections. All we know is that something they did or said was done or said in an attempt to change his mind. They might have subtly suggested that he should stay, perhaps by pointing out the benefits they could see to his staying or something similar.

Please note that I moved the source information in post #1 to directly after the quote, which is where it should always appear.

 

[teechar]

My problem is the adverb 'even' in this sentence.

"Even" is just an intensifier. It does not determine the meaning.

Does 'even' emphasize Phillip (the choir master), Mr Atkinson (the headmaster), his mother and his uncle Robert the sentence mean that those people advised William against leaving the King's College?

That's what's implied, as well as the fact that they failed.

or does it emphasize they didn't raise any objections?

No.

 

[shootingstar]

Thank you. Even though I understand what you are saying I've an issue with this wording. A word of 'ability' or rather 'inability' is missing there in my opinion. The sentence should be 'When none of them . . . had even been able to (or could even ) put a dent in William's resolve . . .' in my opinion. When I'm reading the original 'When none of them . . . had even put a dent in William's resolve . . .' it could mean that none of them didn't do anything at all. Without a word of inability there isn't any definite hint Phillip, Mr Atkinson etc. were trying to do something, anything at all in my opinion.

 

[emsr2d2]

You can take issue with the wording but there's nothing wrong with it. If they hadn't tried to put a dent in his resolve, there would be no reason for the sentence to be there at all. The use of the word "When" at the start in that context is similar to saying "After". Even without any previous mention of their attempts, this sentence makes it clear that they tried but failed.

 

[emsr2d2]

@shootingstar I assume you're reading the entire book. If that's the case, can you tell us if there was anything in the preceding chapters in which those people said anything to William to try and change his mind about leaving Cambridge?

 

[shootingstar]

No, there wasn't any prior indication William wanted to leave the college. I suppose this wish resulted from a dispute between his uncle Robert and his mother. Uncle Robert is gay, his partner is Howard; William's mother doesn't want William to come under the influence of Robert and Howard. At Ash Wednesday William sang the 'Miserere' and he had invited Robert, Howard and his mother. There could have been an argument between them after this. The real reason hasn't been told up to now. It's only said "A short hour later, everything had come crashing down".

Yes, you are right, I'm reading the entire book.

 

[emsr2d2]

No, there wasn't any prior indication William wanted to leave the college. I suppose this wish resulted from a dispute between his uncle Robert and his mother. Uncle Robert is gay, his partner is Howard; William's mother doesn't want William to come under the influence of Robert and Howard. At an Ash Wednesday service, William sang the 'Miserere' and he had invited Robert, space after a comma Howard and his mother. There could have been an argument between them after this. The real reason hasn't been told explained up to now. It's only said It says only "A short hour later, everything had come crashing down".

It seems very odd that you're on Chapter 31 and it hasn't been made clear that/why William wants to leave Cambridge.

Yes, you are right, I'm reading the entire book.

Great. Once you've finished it, do let us know if it's all made clear.

 

[shootingstar]

It seems very odd that you're on Chapter 31 and it hasn't been made clear that/why William wants to leave Cambridge.

No, it isn't that odd. William loves to sing and he loves to be in the choir and to be a chorister all the time. After this 'nightmare' Ash Wednesday a new situation has cropped up. As I said a dispute after the Ash Wednesday service could be the reason for leaving the King's College. I'll let you know when it is clarified.

 

[emsr2d2]

No, it isn't that odd. William loves to sing and he loves to be in the choir and to be a chorister all the time. After this 'nightmare' Ash Wednesday, a new situation has cropped up. As I said, a dispute after the Ash Wednesday service could be the his reason for leaving the King's College. I'll let you know when it is clarified.

Note my changes above, particularly the addition of two commas.