[Idiom] With that said

[sitifan]

with that: immediately after doing or saying that
With That | Definition of With That by Merriam-Webster (merriam-webster.com)
that said: despite what one just said
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/that said
So with that said, there's an incredible opportunity right now in Korea for foreign native English-speaking teachers to come over and to teach English in South Korea.
https://youtu.be/mFlyo3NXRf4?t=62
Does "with that said" mean "with that" or "that said" in the above sentence?
According to the link below, "with that" and "with that said" are interchangeable.
https://kknews.cc/zh-tw/education/mmopkr6.html

 

[emsr2d2]

I've never heard anyone say "With that said". If I did, I would assume the speaker meant to use "That said" but got it wrong.

 

[GoesStation]

It's very common in American English. It means "nevertheless". It can't be replaced by "that said".

 

[jutfrank]

The person in the clip doesn't seem to mean 'nevertheless', though. I'm not sure what he means.

 

[sitifan]

The person in the clip doesn't seem to mean 'nevertheless', though. I'm not sure what he means.

https://ell.stackexchange.com/questions/182064/that-being-so-with-that-said-vs-having-said-this
Note that with that said can often be replaced with having said that, but the reverse is not true.

 

[jutfrank]

https://ell.stackexchange.com/questions/182064/that-being-so-with-that-said-vs-having-said-this
Note that with that said can often be replaced with having said that, but the reverse is not true.

Thanks for the English lesson, sitifan.

I was just saying that I couldn't get much sense of concession out of what the boy in the clip was saying. The phrases that said, having said that, nevertheless, and presumably (as GoesStation tells me) with that said, all have a sense of concession.

I don't think I agree with the analysis of usage from the responder on Stack Exchange, but that could just be because I'm unfamiliar with it. To me, 'with that said' just means the same as 'that said'.

 

[GoesStation]

The person in the clip doesn't seem to mean 'nevertheless', though. I'm not sure what he means.

Sitifan has it right. My explanation was incomplete. "With that said" can mean nevertheless, but it often means simply Having said [all] that.

 

[jutfrank]

"With that said" can mean nevertheless, but it often means simply Having said [all] that.

Sorry, I don't follow. How are you suggesting 'having said all that' differs in meaning from 'nevertheless'?

 

[probus]

Sorry, I don't follow. How are you suggesting 'having said all that' differs in meaning from 'nevertheless'?

I recommend consulting Gladys Gooding about that :-D

 

[GoesStation]

Sitifan has it right. My explanation was incomplete. "With that said" can mean nevertheless, but it often means simply Having said [all] that.

Sorry, I don't follow. How are you suggesting 'having said all that' differs in meaning from 'nevertheless'?

Nevertheless: notwithstanding, and possibly partially contradicting what I just said
Having said all that: in addition to what I just said

 

[Phaedrus]

that said: despite what one just said
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/that said

In my experience, the reduced absolute construction "That said," which is equivalent in meaning to the full absolute constructions "That being said" and "That having been said," need not always be equated to "Despite what one has just said." It often simply means "Now that that has been said," i.e. "Now that I have said that," in keeping with the meaning of grammatically parallel reduced absolute constructions.

Consider the sentence "The thief arrested, the police went about other business," which could be expanded to "The thief having been arrested, the police went about other business." There the translation would be "Once the thief was/had been arrested." The "once" meaning becomes "now that" with "That said" in customary usage because "That said" introduces the speech act itself rather than its content.

That said, I shall now be silent.

 

[jutfrank]

In my experience, the reduced absolute construction "That said," which is equivalent in meaning to the full absolute constructions "That being said" and "That having been said," need not always be equated to "Despite what one has just said." It often simply means "Now that that has been said," i.e. "Now that I have said that," in keeping with the meaning of grammatically parallel reduced absolute constructions.

Okay, I don't disagree with this, but I'll say that my mind really wants to interpret that said with a concessive meaning. However, interestingly, much less so when you put with before it.

Consider the sentence "The thief arrested, the police went about other business," which could be expanded to "The thief having been arrested, the police went about other business." There the translation would be "Once the thief was/had been arrested." The "once" meaning becomes "now that"

Instead of paraphrasing with once, you could equally paraphrase with with: With the thief arrested, the police went about their business. There's certainly no sense of concession there, of course. That's why, for me at least, that with that said is not concessive in the same way as just that said.

"That said" introduces the speech act itself rather than its content.

I don't quite follow you here. Which speech act?

 

[Phaedrus]

The "once" meaning becomes "now that" with "That said" in customary usage because "That said" introduces the speech act itself rather than its content.

I don't quite follow you here. Which speech act?

I mean that, normally, That said (as well as That being said and That having been said) introduces the act of saying what follows the phrase.

But in The thief [being/having been] arrested, the police went about other business, the absolute construction relates to the content of what follows.

It is, however, possible for That [being/having been] said to function in the same way: The blessing having been said, the family commenced to eat.

 

[jutfrank]

I mean that, normally, That said (as well as That being said and That having been said) introduces the act of saying what follows the phrase.

Right. I see what you mean now. Yes, that's what I'd call a discourse marker.