to vs ing

[olegv]

I am using one grammar book where it is written out that "imagine" is included into a list of verbs which are used with ing form and is excluded from a list of verbs which can be followed by an infinitive. However there is a reference in another book showing that "imagine" can be used with both "to" and "ing form". Please explain

 

[engee30]

I am using one grammar book where it is written out that "imagine" is included into a list of verbs which are used with ing form and is excluded from a list of verbs which can be followed by an infinitive. However there is a reference in another book showing that "imagine" can be used with both "to" and "ing form". Please explain

♥♦♣♠ NOT A TEACHER ♥♦♣♠
As far as I know, imagine can only be followed by an -ing form.

 

[bhaisahab]

engee30 is right, in which book did you see that it can be followed by "to"?

 

[lauralie2]

I am using one grammar book where it is written out that "imagine" is included into a list of verbs which are used with ing form and is excluded from a list of verbs which can be followed by an infinitive. However there is a reference in another book showing that "imagine" can be used with both "to" and "ing form". Please explain

The verb imagine among others (admit, allow, consider, forbid, permit, require) can indeed be followed by either a to-infinitive OR a gerund, but not directly followed. Its object intervenes:

• imagine + object + to-infinitive OR a gerund
  • What do you imagine someone to be like?
  • What do you imagine someone being like?

 

[olegv]

Thank you for your comments. In response to your question about which book I am referring to, the book is "Advanced Language Practice" by Muichael Vince. Let me cite the relevant para:" 4. Imagine

With an object and to:

I imagined the castle to be haunted.

With -ing: An object is also possible.

I couldn't imagine (her) living in a place like that.

With that + clause it means suppose:

I imagine that you'd like a cup of tea after your long journey!"

After, in an activities section, there is an exercise where the first point is used as example and is: "a) I never imagine the mountaines to be/being so high?". The correct answer is mared as "to be" - it appears very confusing, to be frank. Thank you very much for your further explanation or comments.


Nothing more is mentioned as to the usage of imagine plus to/ing form.

In other grammar book named "Longman Advanced Learners' Grammar by Mark Foley and Diane Hall", which in my opinion is the most comprehensive and practical one, it is noted: "Certain verbs (see box below) can be followed by an -ing form, but not by an infinitive. With some of these verbs (marked * in the box below) we can also put an object before the ing-form. Compare: Can you imagine wearing that dreass (verb+-ing form) Can you imagibe Jemima wearing that dress! (verb + object+-ing form)."
Immeditely below the authors stipulated a list of verbs which can be followed by ing form only. "Imagine" is among those verbs marked with *.
Nothing more is noted about the usage of imagine in the context of to/ing usage.

 

[olegv]

Саn you please help me with the questions I raised?

 

[Raymott]

Thank you for your comments. In response to your question about which book I am referring to, the book is "Advanced Language Practice" by Muichael Vince. Let me cite the relevant para:" 4. Imagine

With an object and to:

I imagined the castle to be haunted.

With -ing: An object is also possible.

I couldn't imagine (her) living in a place like that.

With that + clause it means suppose:

I imagine that you'd like a cup of tea after your long journey!"

After, in an activities section, there is an exercise where the first point is used as example and is: "a) I never imagine[d?] the mountaines to be/being so high?". The correct answer is mared as "to be" - it appears very confusing, to be frank. Thank you very much for your further explanation or comments.

What is the source of your confusion?
The first example uses "to be"; you say that the activity question is an exercise on the first example, and the answer is "to be". Where's the inconsistency?

Nothing more is mentioned as to the usage of imagine plus to/ing form.

In other grammar book named "Longman Advanced Learners' Grammar by Mark Foley and Diane Hall", which in my opinion is the most comprehensive and practical one, it is noted: "Certain verbs (see box below) can be followed by an -ing form, but not by an infinitive. With some of these verbs (marked * in the box below) we can also put an object before the ing-form. Compare: Can you imagine wearing that dreass (verb+-ing form) Can you imagibe Jemima wearing that dress! (verb + object+-ing form)."
Immeditely below the authors stipulated a list of verbs which can be followed by ing form only. "Imagine" is among those verbs marked with *.
Nothing more is noted about the usage of imagine in the context of to/ing usage.
This has already been explained by the others. Did you read lauralie2's post?
Both of your texts are right.
'Imagine' can be followed directly by an '-ing' form: "Imagine doing that!" Right
'Imagine' can not be followed directly by a 'to' form: * "Imagine to do that!" Wrong
'Imagine' can be used with, but not directly followed by, a 'to' form: "I imagine her to be quite pretty, from the description";

Anything can be followed by anything if you put enough words and punctuation between them. The second book is listing verbs that cannot be followed directly by the 'to' form.

 

[olegv]

Thank you for this. Please help me further. The first book expressly refers to the following sentences as correct ones - Can you imagine wearing that dress. Can you imagine Jemima wearing that dress.

The second book restricts the sentence "I never imagined the mountains to be/being so high" just to "to be so high". If one looks at the structures of the sentences: Can you imagine Jemima wearing that dress and I never imagined the mountains being so hight, it appears that both structures are the same. Thus, it is not clear for me why the answer "being so high" is wrong? Thanks.

 

[Raymott]

Thank you for this. Please help me further. The first book expressly refers to the following sentences as correct ones - Can you imagine wearing that dress. Can you imagine Jemima wearing that dress.
That's right.

The second book restricts the sentence "I never imagined the mountains to be/being so high" just to "to be so high". If one looks at the structures of the sentences: Can you imagine Jemima wearing that dress and I never imagined the mountains being so hight, it appears that both structures are the same. Thus, it is not clear for me why the answer "being so high" is wrong? Thanks.
I don't think it's wrong. However, "to be so high" is better in this sentence.

There's a subtle difference.
If the sentence were, "I never imagined him to be/being so stupid", I would choose "being" as being more common. But both could be correct. The "to be" version implies that he is always stupid; he's inherently stupid. He is stupid, and I never imagined that.

The "being" form means that he has been stupid; he has done something stupid. He's not inherently stupid, but he's behaved stupidly. It's the same difference as between, "You are stupid" (permanent) and "You are being stupid" (temporary).

Now, if you look at the mountain example, "to be" implies permanency, while "being" tends to have this implication of temporary highness. "The mountain is being high" - which is absurd.

 

[bhaisahab]

Anything can be followed by anything if you put enough words and punctuation between them.

Thank you for that.

 

[olegv]

Thanks, it was really helpful. Can I say, for instance, I recommend him to read this book? Am I right?

 

[Raymott]

Thanks, it was really helpful. Can I say, for instance, I recommend him to read this book? Am I right?

I'd say not.
"I recommend that he read this book."; "I recommend for him to read this book."
The same goes for 'suggest,

You can say, "I advise him to read this book"
The same goes for 'counsel, order, ask, tell' ...

You should be able to find lists for which verbs are like 'recommend', and which like 'advise'.

Here's a useful video:
Advise/Recommend/Suggest - My.EnglishClub.com

 

[olegv]

Thank you. While commenting you asked me whether I've read lauralie2's post.... I think that I was really confused by the reference in the book that certain verbs (see box below) can be followed by an ing form, but not by an infinitive. Would you please have a brief look at the verbs cited below.


"Admit, appreciate, avoid, burst out, can't help. consider, contemplate, defer, delay, deny, detest. dislike, endure, enjoy, escape, excuse, face, fancy, feel like, finish, give up, imagine, involve, justofy, keep (on), leave off, mention, mind, miss, postpone, pratcice. prevent, put off, put sb off, recall, recomment, resent, resist, risk, save, suggest, toerate, understand"

Am I right concluding that all of those verbs CANNOT FOLLOWED directly by infinitive, but some of those verbs (not all) can be followed by infinitive going after an object. Thanks a lot.

 

[olegv]

Thanks. Please give me a few exammples with "admit" where object intervenes. Many thanks

 

[Raymott]

Thank you. While commenting you asked me whether I've read lauralie2's post.... I think that I was really confused by the reference in the book that certain verbs (see box below) can be followed by an ing form, but not by an infinitive. Would you please have a brief look at the verbs cited below.


"Admit, appreciate, avoid, burst out, can't help. consider, contemplate, defer, delay, deny, detest. dislike, endure, enjoy, escape, excuse, face, fancy, feel like, finish, give up, imagine, involve, justofy, keep (on), leave off, mention, mind, miss, postpone, pratcice. prevent, put off, put sb off, recall, recomment, resent, resist, risk, save, suggest, toerate, understand"

Am I right concluding that all of those verbs CANNOT FOLLOWED directly by infinitive, but some of those verbs (not all) can be followed by infinitive going after an object. Thanks a lot.

Yes, you're right in concluding that. Is that what the book says? If so, I agree with the book.

 

[Raymott]

Thanks. Please give me a few exammples with "admit" where object intervenes. Many thanks

I can give you some for some of the others.
"I consider her to be ugly"; "Do you consider them to be your friends?"
"I would risk anything to save his life."
""You need to save money to become rich."

 

[olegv]

Thank you. Please give me an example where "admit" would work in the same manner. Many thanks.

 

[Raymott]

Thank you. Please give me an example where "admit" would work in the same manner. Many thanks.

Why are you assuming that I can do that?
Did you miss the implication of my above post that 'admit' was not such a word that this could be done to, or that I couldn't think of an example for 'admit'?
If some of those verbs (not all) can be used this way, then you can reasonably assume that you can't pick one at random, and asked for it to be used this way.

 

[olegv]

Your input was really helpful. Actually, I was a little bit confused with previous reference (not yours) that "admit" can be used in an infinitive construction. Now I understand thta it cannot work. Sorry for bothering you.

 

[engee30]

Thank you. Please give me an example where "admit" would work in the same manner. Many thanks.

♥♦♣♠ NOT A TEACHER ♥♦♣♠
It would be really unusual to use admit with an object and to-infinitive following it in the active voice; however, in the passive voice, it's used that way:
An informal survey of guests in residence reveals that the standards of the cooking and service are admitted to be high.
At the Seventh Congress of the Comintern in 1935 the trade union policy pursued since 1928 was tacitly admitted to have been a blunder.