swap out his English keyboard.

Swap out:To remove something and replace or exchange it:The program swapped out the contents of memory to make space for more data. I swapped the memory card out for a newer one.

http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/swap+out

Swap: Exchange or give (something) in exchange for
http://www.wordwebonline.com/en/SWAP


What is the difference betwen swap and swap out, meaning the above?

Original: He decided to swap out his english keyboard for a french one and discovered that he couldn't login.

Instead of the original can we say :He decided to swap his english keyboard for a french one and discovered that he couldn't login?

Thank you.

Piscean said:

'Swap out' is unknown to me. I would use only 'swap'. 'English' and 'French' need initial capitals. I would make 'login' two words in that sentence.

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What do you mean by "English and French need initial capitals? My example sentences start with capital letters. Do you mean "I would change swap and swap out into login"?

Thank you.

hhtt21 said:

What do you mean by "English and French need initial capitals?

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Piscean means you should write English instead of english, and French instead of french. (I don't do this myself, but you should probably know the majority of users do.)

I can't really get the intended meaning of swap out. I don't see what the out does. And in the example, how can a password be 'removed' before being replaced?

jutfrank said:

Piscean means you should write English instead of english, and French instead of french. (I don't do this myself, but you should probably know the majority of users do.)

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If by "majority" you mean "virtually every careful writer except Jutfrank" then I agree. Hht, you should always capitalize the initial letter of the name of a language. Not doing so makes your writing look careless to most readers and to approximately 100% of teachers. Although Jutfrank is a teacher, effectively 0% of English teachers accept english.

Maybe it's the part of the U.S. I live in, but "swap it out" sounds perfectly normal (though not MORE correct than simply "swap").

GoesStation said:

If by "majority" you mean "virtually every careful writer except Jutfrank" then I agree. Hht, you should always capitalize the initial letter of the name of a language. Not doing so makes your writing look careless to most readers and to approximately 100% of teachers. Although Jutfrank is a teacher, effectively 0% of English teachers accept english.

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No, no! I always capitalise the name of a language, and nationalities, too! It's only in cases where the word acts as a descriptive adjective, where I don't. (Okay, I admit that the example with the keyboards is arguable.) And I'm really not the only one. It was a copy-editor colleague that gave me the idea for this style in the first place.

In my defence, these cases are infrequent enough that in my job as a teacher, this is rarely an issue. It's only when I'm proofing (I've worked for many years as a proofreader, across various text types) that I ever even have to deal with this issue. And sometimes on this forum, which although I feel is an appropriate platform to discuss the reasons behind this alternative style choice, seems to be vehemently opposed without ever really justifying why.

jutfrank said:

. . . I can't really get the intended meaning of swap out. I don't see what the out does. It changes the meaning.

And in the example, how can a password be 'removed' before being replaced? It's just semantics. When you replace it with a new one you're automatically removing the old one.

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It means exactly what the original post quote says it means: to replace - usually a part. When my guitar amps' tubes wear out I swap them out for fresh ones.

Swap just means trade. Swap out means replace.

In the UK, we would just swap them.

hhtt21 said:

The program swapped out the contents of memory to make space for more data.

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Computers have swap files, which are used to extend the RAM memory available, so this has a specific meaning: http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/swap+out

Tdol said:

In the UK, we would just swap them.

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Here that would usually mean that you and someone else traded them.

And don't get me started on credit default swaps . . . .

GoesStation said:

If by "majority" you mean "virtually every careful writer except Jutfrank" then I agree. Hht, you should always capitalize the initial letter of the name of a language. Not doing so makes your writing look careless to most readers and to approximately 100% of teachers. Although Jutfrank is a teacher, effectively 0% of English teachers accept english.

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I'll extend my admonition. You should always capitalize the initial letter of the name of a language or country regardless of whether it's used as a noun or an adjective. I could be wrong, but I doubt any important style guide says otherwise.

Mind you, there are cases where a noun or adjective that's derived from the name of a country isn't capitalized. We may eat off of fine china or write with india ink, for example. In these terms, the derived word no longer refers to the country whose name it descended from.

Charlie Bernstein said:

Here that would usually mean that you and someone else traded them.

And don't get me started on credit default swaps . . . .

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Barb_D said:

Maybe it's the part of the U.S. I live in, but "swap it out" sounds perfectly normal (though not MORE correct than simply "swap").

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But you two are from the States but one of you says "swap out is not more correct than simply "swap" and the other says "it is completely different, swap meaning trade and swap out meaning replacing."

Thank you.

hhtt21 said:

But you two are from the States but one of you says "swap out is not more correct than simply "swap" and the other says "it is completely different, swap meaning trade and swap out meaning replacing."

Thank you.

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I understand your confusion. To be exact: Swap usually means trade. Swap out always means replace.

GoesStation said:

I'll extend my admonition. You should always capitalize the initial letter of the name of a language or country regardless of whether it's used as a noun or an adjective. I could be wrong, but I doubt any important style guide says otherwise.

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An adjective can be a name? Okay, I'll consider myself admonished.

jutfrank said:

An adjective can be a name? Okay, I'll consider myself admonished.

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Sure. French fries. Danish pastries. English muffins. Russian dressing. German potato salad. Italian ices. Canadian bacon. Swiss cheese.

Now excuse me while I head for the refrigerator. My stomach is starting to growl for some reason. . . .

Charlie Bernstein said:

Sure. French fries. Danish pastries. English muffins. Russian dressing. German potato salad. Italian ices. Canadian bacon. Swiss cheese.

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Please point out the names. Names of what?! Languages?

All you have listed here is different food items. The adjectives used when referring to food like this may refer to the kind/shape of the thing, the place of origin, a particular recipe, the process of making, etc. There are no names here. Linguistically speaking, these are simple noun phrases.

Is it possible we're arguing over what counts as a name? Although there is a relationship between names and nouns, they are not identical. In some languages, there exists only one word to cover both concepts (nom in French, nombre in Spanish), but the difference is clearer in English. When we say "I fancy a muffin", 'muffin' is not the name of the thing, but simply a word that refers to the thing.

Charlie Bernstein said:

I understand your confusion. To be exact: Swap usually means trade. Swap out always means replace.

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Isn't there any second meaning other than replace?