At/in the restaurant

[sondra]

Hello.

In British English does ''in'' mean the person is sitting inside the restaurant and ''at'' outside of it?
For example, ''I am sitting at/in the restaurant of the Ritz hotel''.

 

[teechar]

I don't think any variety of English would consider "I'm sitting at the restaurant" natural. I would only use "in" in such a sentence.

However for example, a person who has just arrived at some restaurant (but is still outside) might phone someone and say: "I'm at the restaurant".

 

[sondra]

I don't think any variety of English would consider "I'm sitting at the restaurant" natural. I would only use "in" in such a sentence.

However for example, a person who has just arrived at some restaurant (but is still outside) might phone someone and say: "I'm at the restaurant".

I thought ''at the restaurant'' is an example of American English. :shock:I found these examples on a forum
"I'm in the bank" means that you are inside the bank.''

"I'm at the bank" can mean that you are inside the bank, or that you are just outside the bank and are using it as a reference point.

This of course applies to any other building.''
And
I'm eating in the restaurant right now.
I'm eating in a restaurant right now.
I'm eating at the restaurant right now.
I'm eating at a restaurant right now.

All are correct. What's the context?

 

[teechar]

To me, "sitting at the restaurant" doesn't sound natural. Let's wait and see what others (especially AmE speakers) have to say.

 

[Skrej]

"I'm at the bank" can mean that you are inside the bank, or that you are just outside the bank and are using it as a reference point.

Yes, 'at the restaurant (or wherever)' is natural and common in AmE, but as your source states, it doesn't establish a definite position. You'd need more context to determine whether the speaker is actually inside, or just nearby.

Edit: Actually, I misread and now see the question is actually about the phrase 'sitting at the restaurant'. Still, it's common enough in AmE. However, 'sitting at' would more likely indicate being inside the establishment, or at least at an outdoor table on the restaurant property.

 

[jutfrank]

There's no difference between American English and other varieties.

The sentence is naturally interpreted as an attempt to specify the exact location of the speaker, which makes in the appropriate preposition. The idea is that the speaker is seated inside the restaurant. If it were important for the speaker to specify that she is outside, she'd say so.

 

[sondra]

There's no difference between American English and other varieties.

The sentence is naturally interpreted as an attempt to specify the exact location of the speaker, which makes in the appropriate preposition. The idea is that the speaker is seated inside the restaurant. If it were important for the speaker to specify that she is outside, she'd say so.

Is it the same with ''office'' and ''bank'' and other words?
For example,
1.''She works at an office/bank.''
2.''She works at the office/bank I mentioned before.''
3.She works in an office/bank.
4.She works in the office/bank I mentioned before.

 

[jutfrank]

No. You haven't understood what I meant. Read the thread again.

 

[sondra]

I changed ''works'' into ''is''. This is what I was asking about. In all my four examples the idea is that the person is inside and as you said ''If it were important for the speaker to specify that she is outside, she'd say so''. Did I understand your explanation correctly?
1.''She is at an office/bank.''
2.''She is at the office/bank I mentioned before.''
3.She is in an office/bank.
4.She is in the office/bank I mentioned before.

''The sentence is naturally interpreted as an attempt to specify the exact location of the speaker, which makes in the appropriate preposition''. The idea is that the speaker is seated inside the restaurant. If it were important for the speaker to specify that she is outside, she'd say so. I have two prepositions in my example. ''I am sitting at/in the restaurant of the Ritz hotel''. Were you referring to ''at?''

 

[jutfrank]

Did I understand your explanation correctly?

I believe you understand it now, yes. You were right to change the verb to is.

I have two prepositions in my example. ''I am sitting at/in the restaurant of the Ritz hotel''. Were you referring to ''at?''

I was saying that in is the correct preposition if the idea is that the sentence locates the speaker's precise position. I assume that's what you are trying to say, at least.

 

[sondra]

Yes, that's what I was asking about. I was not sure whether ''at'' and ''in'' are used interchangeably when we say that a person is inside the building. You said ''in'' is the correct preposition. I didn't know that. I thought both are used :shock:. Both locate the speaker's exact position in the same way. So I had better remove ''at'' in my examples.
1.''She is at an office/bank.''
2.''She is at the office/bank I mentioned before.''
3.She is in an office/bank.
4.She is in the office/bank I mentioned before.

 

[jutfrank]

Both locate the speaker's exact position in the same way.

No, that's not right. They do not locate the position in the same way. That's why they are different prepositions.

 

[emsr2d2]

If someone is anywhere within the interior of a bank, they could be described either as "in the bank" or "at the bank". Although the chances are that their reason for being in the building is to do some sort of bank transaction, "in" refers only to the geographical location of the person, whereas "at" can suggest specifically that they are carrying out a transaction of some kind. However, there is no 100% certainty.

As the others have said "sitting at the restaurant", whilst not grammatically incorrect, just doesn't sound natural to native speakers. I might be sitting at a table in a restaurant.

 

[sondra]

Thank you all so much for your explanations. So the main difference is that ''in'' is used when we are thinking about location and ''at'' is used when we are thinking about the activity that happens in a particular place. It's easy to understand and use with the verb ''to be'' but if I use other verbs, for example, ''to work'' or ''to teach'' with 'school'', ''university'' and ''college?'' If I use ''at'' does it mean I am thinking about the activity again and with ''in'' about location?

She works in a/the bank/school/college/universty.
She works at a/the bank/school/college/universty.
She works in an//the office/school/college/universty.
She works at an/the office/school/college/universty.


She is in a/the bank/school/college/universty/office.
She is at a/the bank/school/college/universty/office.
She is in an//the office/school/college/universty.
She is at an/the office/school/college/universty.

Based on what I already know in a bank/office/college/school/university means I work inside the building.
At a bank/office/college/school/university is more general. The person works within the bank/office/college/university.

 

[jutfrank]

So the main difference is that ''in'' is used when we are thinking about location and ''at'' is used when we are thinking about the activity that happens in a particular place.

Well, that's not how I understand it, and it's certainly not how I would teach it.

Based on what I already know in a bank/office/college/school/university means I work inside the building.
At a bank/office/college/school/university is more general.

Yes, that's the basic difference between the two prepositions, regardless of whether you're talking about bank/office/school/college/university.

Both prepositions locate place, but generally speaking, in is more specific in that it has a sense of 'inside'.

 

[emsr2d2]

Based on what I already know in a bank/office/college/school/university means I work inside the building.
At a bank/office/college/school/university is more general. The person works within the bank/office/college/university.

With working at a bank or an office, I think both "in" and "at" would be taken to mean "inside". You're unlikely to work outdoors if you work for a bank, and "at an office" pretty much has to mean "inside an office". We just wouldn't say it like that.

With working at a college or a university, "at" could mean inside (lecturer, teacher, professor, secretary, caretaker cleaner etc) or outside (gardener) or someone who works both inside and outside the building (handyman/woman, plumber, carpenter etc).

 

[sondra]

With working at a bank or an office, I think both "in" and "at" would be taken to mean "inside". You're unlikely to work outdoors if you work for a bank, and "at an office" pretty much has to mean "inside an office". We just wouldn't say it like that.

With working at a college or a university, "at" could mean inside (lecturer, teacher, professor, secretary, caretaker cleaner etc) or outside (gardener) or someone who works both inside and outside the building (handyman/woman, plumber, carpenter etc).

Would you use it? For example, ''she works at a school/at a college/ at a university.'' Maybe it doesn't sound natural just like ''at an office'' and ''at a bank?''

 

[emsr2d2]

Would you use [STRIKE]it[/STRIKE] these? [STRIKE]For example,[/STRIKE] ''She works at a school/at a college/ at a university.'' Maybe [STRIKE]it doesn't[/STRIKE] they don't [STRIKE]sound[/STRIKE] as natural [STRIKE]just like[/STRIKE] as ''at an office'' and ''at a bank?''

Your three examples are grammatical and correct. In fact, they are more likely than the versions with "in".

 

[sondra]

Your three examples are grammatical and correct. In fact, they are more likely than the versions with "in".

In post #16, you said native speakers woudn't just say it like that. So I wanted to make sure I didn't misunderstand your explanations. With bank and office and probably restaurant ''in'' is more likely to be used, but with school, college and university ''at'' is more likely than ''in''. Right?

 

[jutfrank]

In post #16, you said native speakers woudn't just say it like that. So I wanted to make sure I didn't misunderstand your explanations. With bank and office and probably restaurant ''in'' is more likely to be used, but with school, college and university ''at'' is more likely than ''in''. Right?

No, that's all wrong.

With working at a bank or an office, I think both "in" and "at" would be taken to mean "inside". You're unlikely to work outdoors if you work for a bank, and "at an office" pretty much has to mean "inside an office". We just wouldn't say it like that.

With the blue part, emsr2d2 means that we wouldn't say She works inside an office even though it is understood that she is inside the room while working.