... at/on Let's Talk in English.

[kadioguy]

(On the English language show Let's Talk in English)

(At the beginning of the show)
Pauline: You're here for another great day at Let's Talk in English.

(At the ending of the show)
Pauline: And whatever you do, friends, make sure you come back tomorrow right here on Let's Talk in English, good-bye.

-------------
I am wondering why in the first one "at" is used, whereas in the second one, "on". What is the difference in meaning between them? Is there a reason for choosing them?

 

[jutfrank]

With at, Pauline's thinking of Let's Talk in English as a place.

With on, she's thinking of it as a TV show.

The second sentence you quoted is a poor one. It doesn't really make sense.

 

[kadioguy]

The second sentence you quoted is a poor one. It doesn't really make sense.

Sorry, I should have given more context of that. :roll:

Here it is:


[FONT=Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]Jay: It's the end of our show today. But we had a great time talking about this with all of you. And maybe it will encourage you to go outside and enjoy nature however you want to. Flying a kite, biking, walking just along the river. Whatever we do or whatever you do, I hope you enjoy some time outside this week.[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]Puline: And whatever you do, friends, make sure you come back tomorrow right here on Let's Talk in English, good-bye.[/FONT]

 

[jutfrank]

make sure you come back tomorrow right here on Let's Talk in English

I meant that the two parts of the sentence don't go together. What she means is for people to tune in to the show, not to come back on the show.

 

[kadioguy]

What she means is for people to tune in to the show, not to come back on the show.

Thank you, jutfrank. Is this version better?

... make sure you come back tomorrow to tune in to Let's Talk in English, good-bye.

 

[emsr2d2]

Thank you, jutfrank. Is this version better?

... make sure you come back tomorrow to tune in to Let's Talk in English, good-bye.

It's not better but the main part is correct. However, you have a comma splice and you have used a hyphen that shouldn't be there.

 

[Tdol]

Is there a reason for choosing them?

I doubt it- we do this kind of thing in speech. If they were writing the text for the webpage, they might try to standardise usage.

 

[kadioguy]

Thank you, jutfrank. Is this version better?

... make sure you come back tomorrow to tune in to Let's Talk in English, good-bye.

It's not better but the main part is correct. However, you have a comma splice and you have used a hyphen that shouldn't be there.

... make sure you come back tomorrow to tune in to Let's Talk in English, goodbye.

Thank you. I have omitted the hyphen between "goodbye".

And do you mean the comma splice is the comma before "goodbye"? But isn't "goodbye" a noun or interjection rather than a verb?

 

[Tarheel]

Yes! It's an interjection. That's why I write it as:

Goodbye!

 

[emsr2d2]

And do you mean the comma splice is the comma before "goodbye"? But isn't "goodbye" a noun or interjection rather than a verb?

Yes, the comma before "goodbye" was the error. I'm really not sure what difference you think it makes that "goodbye" isn't a verb. The comma splice was formed simply by you putting a comma (instead of a full stop) between two independent sentences.

 

[kadioguy]

Yes, the comma before "goodbye" was the error. I'm really not sure what difference you think it makes that "goodbye" isn't a verb. The comma splice was formed simply by you putting a comma (instead of a full stop) between two independent sentences.

Thank you, emsr2d2.

Could you tell me how you define the term independent sentence? In my opinion "independent sentence" includes a subject and a verb, but "goodbye" is only a noun or interjection. Is it a independent sentence?

 

[emsr2d2]

I've got a feeling someone's going to disagree with me here, but I consider it to be a one-word sentence, like "Yes" or "No" or "Thanks".

I just stumbled upon this page, about "pro-sentences" (a new term for me).

 

[jutfrank]

There's some confusion here.

The comma splice was formed simply by you putting a comma (instead of a full stop) between two independent sentences.

No, that's not the right terminology.

1) By most definitions, a comma splice connects two independent clauses. (A 'sentence' is not the same thing in linguistics terminology.)
2) The interjection word goodbye is not a clause (a clause must contain a verb—I assume that's what kadioguy is thinking about).
3) So technically, this is not a comma splice, in the normal sense.

However, I fully agree with emsr2d2's advice to separate the passage into two written parts. The reasoning is that the interjection goodbye does not need to be tagged to the end of the previous thought. It is best understood as a separate thought in itself.

I've got a feeling someone's going to disagree with me here, but I consider it to be a one-word sentence, like "Yes" or "No" or "Thanks".

Well, technically, a sentence (in its use as a linguistics term) cannot consist of a single word, unless the single word is a verb in the imperative mood (e.g. Go!). So strictly speaking, single words like Yes, No, Thanks, Hello, Goodbye, etc. are not considered sentences. They cannot express 'complete thoughts'.

However, teachers routinely use the word sentence in a very different way—to talk about strings of written words that typically begin with a capital letter and finish with a full stop. This is the sense of sentence that emsr2d2 is using.


(Pro-sentences have nothing to do with any of this.)

 

[kadioguy]

However, teachers routinely use the word sentence in a very different way—to talk about strings of written words that typically begin with a capital letter and finish with a full stop. This is the sense of sentence that emsr2d2 is using.

Even though just only single words, like Yes, No, Thanks, Hello, Goodbye, etc. they still begin with a capital letter and finish with a full stop, so teachers call them a sentence.


Do I understand you correctly?

 

[jutfrank]

Which linguists claim that?

It doesn't matter which, does it? Do you think that will help the thread? If you have time, maybe you could tell us.

Those I have encountered write of the sentence rather more loosely as:
[...] an independent linguistic form not included by virtue of any grammatical construction in any larger linguistic form. (Bloomfield, 1933)
[...the] largest unit about which grammatical statements are to be made. (Halliday, 1956)

If you keep reading, I think you'll come across plenty of variation of exact definition, but I'd say there's a general agreement among grammarians of there being at least some grammatical relationship between words, in line with what Halliday is saying. Do you disagree?

The general idea I think is that there is some use in making a distinction between different 'sized' units of linguistic context. There are 'words' (another ill-defined term) and then there are sentences.

By the way, I don't think I fully follow what Bloomfield is saying here. Could you please explain?

By whom?

Like I said—by linguists. I'm thinking chiefly of semanticists and pragmaticists. I don't know much about grammar, but I believe it includes grammarians, too. Do you disagree? Please explain.

 

[jutfrank]

Even though just only single words, like Yes, No, Thanks, Hello, Goodbye, etc. they still begin with a capital letter and finish with a full stop, so teachers call them sentence.


Do I understand you correctly?

When any single word begins with a capital letter and has a full stop after it, then we teachers and forum members tend to call it a sentence, yes. When they don't (which is often the case), then we don't.

Here's a sentence in this sense:

Yes.

Here's another:

Yes, I do.

 

[emsr2d2]

I have never considered myself a grammarian - that's why I chose chiefly to teach conversational English. Consequently, I don't intend to get embroiled in the semantics. I'm glad to see that I'm not alone in considering "Yes", "No" and "Goodbye" to be sentences, for the purposes of teaching at least the basics. The reason I gave the link to the "pro-sentence" page was because it gave "Yes" and "No" as examples. Admittedly, "Goodbye" doesn't seem to fit that as there is no missing pronoun etc.

 

[jutfrank]

Piscean (and others)—I think the thread question has been answered, so I'm happy to continue the discussion here if anyone's interested.

Well, I haven't encountered any linguists who have claimed that "a sentence (in its use as a linguistics term) cannot consist of a single word, unless the single word is a verb in the imperative mood (e.g. Go!)." If you can give me the names of one or two, I can follow this up and see how they justify it.

I can't remember any names without searching for a while, but the understanding that I have is that in such a sentence as Go!, there lies some grammaticality that does not exist in single-word interjections or simple NPs such as John!

Incidentally, Bloomfield states explicitly that the exclamation John! is a sentence.

Yes, this is a good example. I remember reading an article about this subject where the controversial 'sentence' in question was Hi, John. This was many years ago now and I have no idea how or if I could find it. Anyway, I believe that Bloomfield's view does not represent the views of modern linguistics.

Those semanticists who would argue against Hi, John's status as a sentence might say that it does not have propositional content. In other words, it does not express a complete thought. In my opinion, this reasoning is also problematic as it tends to bring up the question of what exactly a 'complete thought' is. My own interpretation of this is that a complete thought is one in which there is a predication relationship of some kind (subject/predicate relationship). Only with such predication can you really say something about a state-of-affairs in the world. The utterance Hi, John may be doing something (as a speech act), but it isn't really saying something, if you get what I mean.

At the end of the day, whether you think something is a sentence or not depends on what definition you're working from. Obviously, as I spend most of my day as a teacher, I'm more than happy to go with the idea that Hi, John is a sentence.

The reason I brought up this point is that I thought I could shed some light where I thought there may have been some confusion.


[Not a linguist]

 

[kadioguy]

Thank you all.

Please let us come back to the topic:

a. ... make sure you come back tomorrow right here on Let's Talk in English.
b. ... make sure you come back tomorrow to tune in to Let's Talk in English.

(a) is the original; (b) is my version. Is mine better than the original?

It's not better but the main part is correct.

If so, how would you say this sentence?

 

[emsr2d2]

I'd probably say something like "Make sure you come back tomorrow. We'll see you right here, on Let's Talk in English".