[Grammar] Correct usage of me or my

[MikeNewYork]

How does that differ from post #17?

 

[Matthew Wai]

the second one is probably less natural

the first was more natural

I take them to mean the same. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Not a teacher.

 

[MikeNewYork]

You are not wrong. We will leave it to jutfrank to clarify his actual meaning.

 

[TheParser]

Hello, Mr. Wai:

Thank you for your courteous note.

I have read the two links in your post.

I have, indeed, reviewed my opinions and my books. I found no reason to change my opinions.

I do agree, however, with what that teacher told you: just ignore my post. This is the "Ask a Teacher" forum. So you should accept a teacher's answer over mine.



Have a nice day!


James

 

[MikeNewYork]

So do you think gerunds have subjects? And specifically, do you believe that a possessive adjective is a subject or an objective pronoun is a subject? I am not trying to be discourteous to you, but we we should try to be accurate here.

 

[TheParser]

We should try to be accurate here.

***** NOT A TEACHER ******


Absolutely true! That is why the moderators often delete posts for not being "helpful."

The moderators, however, no doubt agree with Pence and Emery's opinion: "... often there is more than one good explanation for a construction in English grammar."

You strongly believe that gerunds do not have subjects. That is, no doubt, a view shared by other people.

I just happen to believe those authorities who say that gerunds do have subjects.

Here is what four scholars write in their huge and highly respected A Comprehensive Grammar of the English Language (1985 edition, page 1186):

"A subject [my emphasis] pronoun in the objective case can often be replaced, in formal style, by a possessive."

Professors Quirk, et al., then give this example:

"He doesn't like me / my coming often."

"This is what one would expect given that me and my can both be subjects [my emphasis] of an -ing clause."


Have a nice day,


James

 

[MikeNewYork]

The problem is that you have pronounced "gerunds" to be nouns. You can't have it both ways. When did a noun ever have a subject? And even if gerunds could have a subject, when would a possessive adjective ever get to be one? It is OK to believe alternate theories, but you need to be consistent. Nouns don't have subjects. Ever. One would have to create a completely different theory of grammar. You are welcome to try.

 

[Matthew Wai]

"He doesn't like me / my coming often."

Do you deem 'coming' a gerund in both cases?

Not a teacher.

 

[TheParser]

***** NOT A TEACHER *****

Hello, Mr. Wai:

I do not know to whom your question is addressed, but I shall assume that anyone may answer.

1. Professor Quirk et al.'s huge book does not seem to like the terms "participle" and "gerund" very much. I do not know how they would classify that -ing word in that particular sentence. If you find out, please let us know.

2. Pence and Emery's A Grammar of Present-Day Grammar says: "The gerund ... is a hybrid. ...[I[t has the sense of a verb [my emphasis] and may take any kind of complement and any kind of adverbial modifier that a finite verb may take. ...But in addition to the sense of a verb, a gerund has the function of a noun [my emphasis] in the statement in which it appears."

3. According to Pence and Emery, "going" in "It is a question of Henry going" is a "substantive modified by the participle"; In "It is a question of Henry's going," it is a gerund modified by the substantive "in the possessive case."

4. IF you accept this claim, then, I guess that "me coming" involves a participle, and "my coming" involves, well, you can finish the sentence.

5. As has been discussed in other threads, many people say "me" in such sentences when they may actually mean "my" -- if they knew (or cared about) the rule.

6. Some people who really know their grammar (of course, that does not include me!) feel that there is a really big difference.

a. I have made up these sentences. Maybe I am the only one who sees a difference:

i. "Do you mind my asking you a question?" (That is to say, I know that you are pressed for time and that you have to leave right now, but could you spare one minute to answer a simple question?)

ii. "Do you mind me asking you a question?" (That is to say, I know that you hate me and think that I'm an idiot, but is there any chance that you will consent to answer me?)

As Pence and Emery might say, the "my" refers to the "asking" while "me" refers to the person who is doing the asking.

I think that it is accurate to say that most people who would use "me" are actually intending to convey the meaning expressed by "my" (the so-called "correct" choice).

Many books, I have noticed, simply tell learners: "me" is fine and "my" is "formal." (From reading and listening to a lot of English here in the States, I would guess that most native speakers use "me" in such cases, for it seems more "natural." That is to say, that is what they usually hear, so they assume that it is "good" English. And if most native speakers use it, then I guess that it is good English.)



Have a nice day!


James

 

[MikeNewYork]

Do you deem 'coming' a gerund in both cases?

Not a teacher.

Matthew, in your two sentences, "me coming" is an objective pronoun followed by a participle; "my coming" is a possessive pronoun followed by a gerund. But you already knew that. It appears that James now agrees with that. I think we can let this issue rest.

 

[jpeslab]

In my opinion, they are both grammatical.

The first ends with possessive adjective + gerund.
The second ends with objective pronoun + participle.

In most cases, the two forms have the same meaning.

I also think they are both gramatical.
In my opinion, the explanations are a bit different.
The first ends with possesive pronoun + gerund.
The second ends with objective pronoun + gerund.

The only difference between the two is the first one is normally used in a formal style, and the second one in an informal style, or spoken style.

This is what I have learned so far.
What do you think?


Woops!, after posting this, I found there were more than 30 replies.
I only read the first page of the thread.

 

[jpeslab]

Matthew Wai,

I have no intention to dredge up the issue, but do you agree to the following?

- Yes, that's what I have learned and known so far.

 

[Checkmate]

It can only be a present participle modifying the pronoun.

Not a teacher.

I'm still confused. Isn't it possible to use the gerund after an object?

 

[engee30]

NOT A TEACHER

I would have thought the answer to the question has already been provided here.

 

[MikeNewYork]

Me too.

 

[Checkmate]

In this sentence, "Like" is an intransitive verb so there is no object.


"I like swimming".

But swimming is gerund. Is there any difference?

 

[Matthew Wai]

The difference is that 'like' is a transitive verb and the object is 'swimming'.

Not a teacher.

 

[MikeNewYork]

Yes, Checkmate, "swimming" is a gerund. It is a noun which serves as the direct object of "like".

 

[Checkmate]

The difference is that 'like' is a transitive verb and the object is 'swimming'.

Not a teacher.

"I like to swim. "


Is "like" a transitive verb here? I usually see people use the infinitive after an intransitive verb​.

 

[MikeNewYork]

Yes, it is a transitive verb. Just like the gerund "swimming", "to swim" (the infinitive) is a noun and acts as the direct object of the verb "like". Unlike gerunds, however, infinitives can also function as adverbs or adjectives, so you will see them in other uses.

Can you come up with an example of an infinitive used after an intransitive verb?