Do you have a son? - Yes I have him/one

[Tarheel]

Abe; Where are you going?
Bob: To the store.
Abe: Buy some pencils for yourself.
Bob; I don't need any.

 

[Alexey86]

Bob; I don't need any.

Of course! How could I forget about "any"? What if I change the context a bit:

- Don't buy pencils.
- I need some/them/ones.

 

[Tarheel]

OK.

Abe: Don't buy pencils.
Bob: Why do you say that? I need some.
Abe: Don't buy any pencils. I'll give you some. I have plenty.
Bob; OK.

 

[Alexey86]

Tarheel, do you mean that only "some" works in this context?

 

[GoesStation]

Of course! How could I forget about "any"? What if I change the context a bit:

- Don't buy pencils.
- I need some/them/ones.

"Ones" is not possible there. "Some" is the likeliest choice, but "them" is possible.

 

[Alexey86]

"Ones" is not possible there. "Some" is the likeliest choice, but "them" is possible.

Is it possible to use "ones" instead of indefinite plural nouns at all? How should I change the context above for "ones" to work?

 

[Tarheel]

Is it possible to use "ones" instead of indefinite plural nouns at all? How should I change the context above for "ones" to work?

If I think about it and think about and think about it I might find a use for "ones", and then I will reject it.

Let's look at them.

Abe: Why are you throwing those pencils away?
Bob: I don't need them.
Abe: Let me have them. I'll make good use of them.
Bob: OK

 

[jutfrank]

What if I change the context a bit:

- Don't buy pencils.
- I need some/them/ones.

Look:

Don't buy a pencil.
But I need one!

This is fine. The pronoun one stands for the singular countable noun phrase a pencil. However, it might help you to understand it as replacing only the determiner, with the noun omitted, like this:

But I need one [pencil]!.

Note that the expansion here is only for explanatory purposes—it's not correct to actually do it.

Now look at this:

Don't buy pencils.
But I need some! :tick:

This is fine. You can also understand some as standing in for the plural countable NP pencils. In the same way as above, you could expand it to:

But I need some [pencils]!.

In this case, it is grammatical to use the expansion. What is not possible here, however, is this:

But I need ones! :cross:

This shows a key difference between singular one and plural ones.

Here is another way to explain what I mean:

Where's my pencil?
Which one?

Where are my pencils?
Which ones?

You will notice that one/ones stand in only for the part of the NP that does not include the determiner my. In other words, one/ones replace pencil/pencils, not my pencil/my pencils.

The same applies with articles, as well as determining question words such as which:

Where's my pencil?
Which one?
The one with the eraser.


I'm not sure if I've made things clearer or more confusing, so before this thread gets too complicated, I suggest you find a good reference and get clear on the basics before starting a new thread with any new questions. This is a complicated area.

 

[Alexey86]

I suggest you find a good reference and get clear on the basics before starting a new thread with any new questions. This is a complicated area.

Of course, I won't be asking questions if you don't want me to. But there are many learners here on forum asking basic questions, and I've never seen you consider it a big problem. Thank you anyway!

 

[jutfrank]

I didn't mean to discourage you from asking questions—on the contrary! Please continue asking.

 

[Alexey86]

Sorry, jutfrank, I don't understand you and can't reconcile your last two comments:

I suggest you find a good reference and get clear on the basics before starting a new thread with any new questions.

I didn't mean to discourage you from asking questions—on the contrary! Please continue asking.

I ask questions. -> You suggest not doing this until I get clear on basics. -> "Please continue asking."

I use Swan as a reference. He doesn't provide (or I couldn't find) a comparison of the use of "it" and "one". So, I started this thread. Maybe it's time to finish it.

 

[jutfrank]

Sorry, jutfrank, I don't understand you and can't reconcile your last two comments:

When I effectively told you to go away and study the basics, I didn't mean to discourage you from asking questions. My thinking was that you've shown some basic misunderstanding of the uses of it/them/one/ones in this thread (which was surprising to me, given your normally excellent grasp of English) and that knowing what kind of learner you are, a thorough explanation of the uses of these words would probably be beneficial.

I understand now that you took my words in the wrong way and I'm sorry for that. Please continue to ask questions. You should know by now that I like your questions and I'm happy to answer as best I can. Are we clear?

 

[Alexey86]

Are we clear?

Yes, we are. Sorry for misunderstanding. The thing is that I learn English on my own, without supervising.
That's why I have knowledge gaps that might surprise you. I have to say this forum is important for me not only as a place
where I can practice my writing and communication skills, and get explanations to my questions, but also because I feel at home here.

...you've shown some basic misunderstanding of the uses of it/them/one/ones in this thread (which was surprising to me...

I have no trouble at all understanding texts with "it/one" and "them/ones", but I obviously have one;-) using these pronouns. The funny thing is that I didn't even realize how fundamental my misunderstanding of their usage was. I was absolutely sure that they could be interchangeable, at least sometimes. I thought it's just a matter of naturalness which one to use when their reference is general. Like I can choose between "some" and "them" (if I got GoesStation right):

- Don't buy pencils.
- But I need some/them. (less natural but possible)

I thought the same was true for "it/one", especially in cases like: "Do you have a car?" (general and clear reference) - "Yes, I have it/one"
Well, now I know I was wrong.

Please continue to ask questions.

I will, because I have some.;-)