From-till?

[enthink]

Can native AmE and BrE speakers confirm this?

I was taught that till is not used if it is connected with from (the correct construct is from-to).


Examples:

I was watching it from 5 to 6.

I was watching it till 6.


But not:

I was watching it from 5 [STRIKE]till[/STRIKE] 6.


Thanks!

 

[bhaisahab]

Can native AmE and BrE speakers confirm this?

I was taught that till is not used if it is connected with from (the correct construct is from-to).


Examples:

I was watching it from 5 to 6.

I was watching it till 6.


But not:

I was watching it from 5 [STRIKE]till[/STRIKE] 6.


Thanks!

Yes, use "from 5 to 6" or "(un)til 6".

 

[enthink]

Thanks. I was asking because in this post an Australian VIP member broke that rule. So it looks like it is an Australian exception to the rule.

What about Americans?

 

[Jaskin]

Thanks. I was asking because in this post an Australian VIP member broke that rule. So it looks like it is an Australian exception to the rule.

What about Americans?

Actually he did not. It's 'til which is an abbreviation for until.

cheers

 

[Raymott]

On Google, I get the following hits:
803,000 for "from dust till dawn"
319,000 for "from dusk until dawn"
317,000 for "from dusk 'til dawn"

Unfortunately Google doesn't make distinctions between "til" and " 'til"
But the mind boggles over the results one would get for "from x till y", where x and y can be any appropriate words.
So I think the VIP member was right. ;-)

 

[birdeen's call]

But the mind boggles over the results one would get for "from x till y", where x and y can be any appropriate words.

Maybe BNU could help? I'll post a picture that should explain how to do that.

 

[Raymott]

Maybe BNU could help? I'll post a picture that should explain how to do that.

Yes, you should be able to use variables with regular expressions.
Let's know if you discover the formula!

PS: From * till * works, but it also gives "From the till ..."
I should work out how to use these corpora.

 

[birdeen's call]

Yes, you should be able to use variables with regular expressions.
Let's know if you discover the formula!

Isn't the formula on the picture right?

PS: If you click the question mark to the right of COLLOCATES box, you'll get help about it. There are ways to force nouns, adjectives and so one. I'm too lazy to try.

 

[Jaskin]

hi,

from [cardinal number] to [cardinal number]

from [cardinal number] until [cardinal number]

from [cardinal number] till [cardinal number]

from [cardinal number] till [cardinal number]

no matches for 'til

I think the issue here is that both forms 'til and till are considered by some people as valid abbreviations of until.

cheers;
PS Birdeen's call, I can't see the picture you posted.

 

[enthink]

Actually he did not. It's 'til which is an abbreviation for until.

He did. And yes I know what 'til means.

 

[enthink]

On Google, I get the following hits:
803,000 for "from dust till dawn"
319,000 for "from dusk until dawn"
317,000 for "from dusk 'til dawn"

Number of hits Google returns is irrelevant and usually pretty misleading.

Why? Because English is used as the "official internet" language and so a large portion of the English texts on the internet is written by people whose first language is not English and whose command of English is rather poor.

 

[enthink]

I think the issue here is that both forms 'til and till are considered by some people as valid abbreviations of until.

No, the issue is from-to vs. from-till/until/'til

 

[Barb_D]

I see no difference in "until" and "till." Till is not a shortened form of "until" either - you may find this interesting: World Wide Words: Until, till and ’til

It includes this: The most common belief is that till is a shortened form of until. You can see how this could have grown up, but the truth of the matter is that till is by far the older word, being recorded from about the year 800, while it took another 400 years for until to appear in the language (it’s a compound of till with the archaic Old Norse und, as far as, which also survives in the archaic unto). But the first sense of till was to, as it still can be, for example, in Scots and some dialects. Though the modern sense of till in standard English is always connected with time, this only appeared about 1300.

as well as this: , ’til, has been created within the past century by people who believe that till is an abbreviation of until and want to mark it as such. It has often been said by style guides and dictionaries that it’s a mistake and it arouses passion in some people. Most recent writers on language prefer to describe it as an informal version of until

Anyway, I don't know if I'd say "From 8 to 8" or "from 8 until/till 8" but I wouldn't regard it as an error if I heard or read it.

 

[birdeen's call]

PS Birdeen's call, I can't see the picture you posted.

I can't see it either, I think it must have been removed. I have no idea why.

 

[Pedroski]

till (preposition)

"until," O.E. til (Northumbrian), from O.N. til "to, until," from P.Gmc. *tilan (cf. Dan. til, O.Fris. til "to, till," Goth. tils "convenient," Ger. Ziel "limit, end, goal"). A common preposition in Scandinavian, probably originally the accusative case of a noun now lost except for Icelandic tili "scope," the noun used to express aim, direction, purpose (e.g. aldrtili "death," lit. "end of life"). Also cf. Ger. Ziel "end, limit, point aimed at, goal," and compare till (v.).