had lived vs have lived

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keannu

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In present perfect like 2, "have" has the nuance of indicating the present, so for native speakers, does "had" in "had lived" have the nuance of indicating the past point? I mean in "had lived", "had" refers to a past point, while "lived" points to an action finished before the past point. Can I make such an analogy between present perfect and past perfect?

1. Julie and Mike had lived together for fifteen years when they got divorced.
2. Julie and Mike have lived together for fifteen years.
 

5jj

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In #1, the living together may have ended before the divorce or at the moment of divorce. If before, then the time period of not living together wass relatively short, or we would say something different.
 

keannu

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I was wondering if "had" in "had lived" is perceived as "the past" not "past perfect" when native speakers say it as they perceive "have lived" as the present.
I mean if "had lived" was continuous until the point of divorce(past like 2010), the time point of "had" could be perceived as the same time(2010) and that of "lived" could be "from 1995 to 2010". I'm thinking about this because in any present perfect like "I have lived here for ten years", "have" refers to now(2013), so there must an analogy between "have p.p" and "had p.p".
If not, my explanation to others in such a way would have been a fake.

ex)Julie and Mike had lived together for fifteen years when they got divorced.
 

5jj

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