I wanted to know (had/have) backshift

[Talab1234]

1. I wanted to know if you had/have the shirt.
(Asking if someone has the shirt)

2. I wanted to know if you had/have a date for tomorrow.
(Asking if someone has a date)


Can I use had/have in both instances? Would it mean the same thing?

 

[emsr2d2]

If you start with "I wanted to know", you can follow it with either of them. If you start with "I want to know", follow it with the present simple. Bear in mind that we use "I wanted to know" both when we currently want to know and if we wanted to know in the past. I don't know why! It's the same when we say "I was just wondering ...". In general, it means "I wonder" but we frequently use the past continuous.

 

[Holmes]

Bear in mind that we use "I wanted to know" both when we currently want to know and if we wanted to know in the past. I don't know why! It's the same when we say "I was just wondering ...".

I'd say that the speaker uses the past tense to comment on the reason for the present speech act of asking a quesiton. The actual question is implied rather than stated:

"I wanted to know the answer to this question. (The reason I am speaking is that I still want to know the answer, so what is the answer?)"

The overall effect of this indirectness is a softening one. A sentence like "I want to know if you have the shirt" can feel abrasively direct.

 

[Talab1234]

If you start with "I wanted to know", you can follow it with either of them. If you start with "I want to know", follow it with the present simple. Bear in mind that we use "I wanted to know" both when we currently want to know and if we wanted to know in the past. I don't know why! It's the same when we say "I was just wondering ...". In general, it means "I wonder" but we frequently use the past continuous.

Just to reconfirm, if the intended meaning is to ask if they still have the shirt, I can still say - “I wanted to know if you had the shirt”

 

[Barque]

No. If you want to know if they have the shirt, you need to use "have".

 

[Holmes]

Just to reconfirm, if the intended meaning is to ask if they still have the shirt, I can still say - “I wanted to know if you had the shirt”

Yes, that's perfectly fine, as can be seen by that fact that it can quite naturally be followed with "Do you?" (present tense).

A: What did you just say?
B: I wanted to know if you had the shirt. Do you?

 

[5jj]

No. If you want to know if they have the shirt, you need to use "have".

'Had' is fine, as Holmes said.

 

[Barque]

I'm assuming that Talab wants to ask X if X has a particular shirt (which they both know about) in his possession.

If this is the first time in that particular conversation Talab is referring to the shirt, "I wanted to know if you had the shirt"sounds a little off to me.

Talab: Hi X, I was looking for you. I wanted to know if you had the shirt. (This just doesn't seem natural.) I'd expect "have".

A: What did you just say?
B: I wanted to know if you had the shirt. Do you?

Again, this seems a little unlikely, even if B's asking the question a second time because A didn't hear him the first time.

B: Do you have the shirt?
A: What did you just say?
B: I wanted to know if you have the shirt./I asked if you have the shirt. (This seems much more likely.)

I'd only expect "I wanted to know if you had the shirt" if the speaker was referring to a question (or attempt to ask a question) in the past (earlier than the immediate past).

"Had" could work in other contexts of course. I was asking if you had lunch there.

 

[5jj]

If this is the first time in that particular conversation Talab is referring to the shirt, "I wanted to know if you had the shirt"sounds a little off to me.

It doesn't to me. This 'diffident' use of past tenses is not uncommon. Compare:

Employee to boss: I wondered/was wondering if you had a moment. (= Have you a moment?)

 

[5jj]

From https://www.usingenglish.com/articles/english-tenses-aspect-3-marked-tense.html

3.2.3. Distancing in Directness

Some writers claim that the use of could and would in requests is 'more polite' than can and will, as in:

1. Can/could you open the window please?
2. Will/would you post this letter when you go out?

If by 'more polite' we understand 'more diffident, more hesitant, less direct', then this is true. The reason, however, is not simply that some words are more polite than others. It is that could and would are the marked forms of can and will; marked forms distance. Here the distancing is in directness. We see exactly the same use of marked forms for distancing in:

1. What was your name?
2. A: Did you want something?

B: I wondered if you had a moment. I wanted to ask you about the meeting.

 

[Barque]

This 'diffident' use of past tenses is not uncommon. Compare:

Employee to boss: I wondered/was wondering if you had a moment. (= Have you a moment?)

Oh I agree with that and I follow your and Holmes's logic. My objection was to specifically that sentence, and the use of "had the" with "shirt". I can't put my finger on it though; maybe it's just me.