If they knew what I know/knew

[ademoglu]

Hi

In the Matrix movie, Morpheus calls Neo and the first sentence that comes out of his mouth is:

''This line is tapped, so I must be brief. They got to you first, but they've underestimated how important you are. If they knew what I know, you would probably be dead.''

My question is whether or not it is possible to say '...what I knew' instead of the present tense 'know' in the above sentence. If yes, does it change the meaning?

Thanks.

 

[Tdol]

Both are possible. It makes the meaning less current and urgent to use the past tense.

 

[emsr2d2]

In the movie The Matrix [STRIKE]movie[/STRIKE], Morpheus calls Neo and the first sentence that comes out of his mouth is:

Remember to use the full, correct title of films and to mark the title out, ideally in italics.

 

[jutfrank]

No, it isn't possible to use knew. Only the present tense know is correct.

Morpheus is talking about his present knowledge.

 

[teechar]

Morpheus is talking about his present knowledge.

We don't know that from the above post. Have you watched the film?

 

[jutfrank]

We don't know that from the above post. Have you watched the film?

Yes, I have watched the film.

I don't think you need to have, though. The context we have here is very clear, isn't it? The sentence is an unreal conditional comparing their imagined knowledge with Morpheus' real knowledge. I can't see any other way to interpret this.

 

[teechar]

Not necessarily. He could have known then whatever it is he's talking about.

 

[jutfrank]

Not necessarily. He could have known then whatever it is he's talking about.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the question.

What do you think it is that ademoglu is really asking?

 

[emsr2d2]

I think the question is pretty clear.

Can I say "If they knew what I knew, you would probably be dead" instead of "If they knew what I know, you would probably be dead"?

I don't find the "knew/knew" version very natural. I would expect "If they had known what I knew, ...".

 

[jutfrank]

I think the question is pretty clear.

Not to me.

Can I say "If they knew what I knew, you would probably be dead" instead of "If they knew what I know, you would probably be dead"?

If that's the case, then the answer is obviously no. They mean different things. From what I gather, teechar is interpreting the question to be asking whether If they knew what I knew is grammatical, regardless of the meaning. (Am I right, teechar?)

I don't find the "knew/knew" version very natural. I would expect "If they had known what I knew, ...".

Yes, I agree. I think this is complicating things.

I'm sorry if I'm confusing anyone—my brain is pretty fried today.

 

[teechar]

I disagree with emsr2d2 and jutfrank. In the real world out there (not the theoretical, grammatically "correct" world of textbooks and now the internet), native speakers of English may well use that conditional structure. In my experience, "mixed" conditionals of all sorts exists, well beyond the four "standard" ones we teach students. Of course the third conditional works there too, but that's not to say that the "knew - knew" one is wrong. It isn't.

 

[jutfrank]

I disagree with emsr2d2 and jutfrank. In the real world out there (not the theoretical, grammatically "correct" world of textbooks and now the internet), native speakers of English may well use that conditional structure. In my experience, "mixed" conditionals of all sorts exists, well beyond the four "standard" ones we teach students. Of course the third conditional works there too, but that's not to say that the "knew - knew" one is wrong. It isn't.

I think where we've got mixed up, teechar, is in the fact that it is wrong in this context.

Morpheus says If they knew what I know. He doesn't say If they knew what I knew because that wouldn't make sense. He's talking about his present knowledge.

Now, I might well be wrong but I believe that ademoglu's question was inspired by his not properly understanding how the past tense knew can exist in the same condition clause as the present tense know. Could you let us know if that's right, ademoglu?

 

[Tdol]

But you can use knew with the sense of learning something. If you say that you knew something years ago, it could mean that you first heard of it years ago, and not that you cannot remember it. If you couldn't remember it, you wouldn't say the sentence.