Japanese/the Japanese

[SoothingDave]

"The Japanese" for me, too.

 

[Tdol]

It would have been the case for me before I moved to Asia. Some nationalities I used to use with a definite article, sound fine without.

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

Are there situations in which 'I have been taught' and 'I have learnt' would still work? For example, if I was attending a language course now and told my teacher 'I have been taught' or 'I have learnt (while attending the course) that native speakers don't use the present perfect with words that refer to a completely finished period of time.' Would it be correct?

Unless the context demands one or the other, I really can't see any practical difference between I was taught and I have been taught.

But I'm not a grammar person. So if others see a subtle difference in meaning, take their advice.

 

[teechar]

I'll add to post #6 and say that:
- Nationality words which end in "ese" cannot be used as nouns/countably.
I met five Chineses. :cross:

- Nationality words which end in "ish" cannot be used as nouns/countably.
I met five Scottishes.

-Nationality words which end in "an" (including "man") can be used as nouns/countably.
I met five Papua New Guineans.

I met five Frenchmen.

-Nationality words which end in "i" can be used as nouns/countably.
I met five Bangladeshis.

I met five Emiratis.

Here's a useful website in that regard, and you can always look up a nationality word in the dictionary to learn how it's typically used.

https://www.vocabulary.cl/Basic/Nationalities.htm

 

[Rachel Adams]

Unless the context demands one or the other, I really can't see any practical difference between I was taught and I have been taught.

But I'm not a grammar person. So if others see a subtle difference in meaning, take their advice.

Unfortunately, it's not quite clear to me why the present perfect does not work there. Especially after reading in Swan than both are used depending on what you want to focus on the past or the present moment.

 

[Rachel Adams]

I'll add to post #6 and say that:
- Nationality words which end in "ese" cannot be used as nouns/countably.
I met five Chineses. :cross:

- Nationality words which end in "ish" cannot be used as nouns/countably.
I met five Scottishes.

-Nationality words which end in "an" (including "man") can be used as nouns/countably.
I met five Papua New Guineans.

I met five Frenchmen.

-Nationality words which end in "i" can be used as nouns/countably.
I met five Bangladeshis.

I met five Emiratis.

Here's a useful website in that regard, and you can always look up a nationality word in the dictionary to learn how it's typically used.

https://www.vocabulary.cl/Basic/Nationalities.htm

Thank you. When we are talking about the whole nation we add the article as in the British, the French, the Spaish but in Swan national adjectives are also used with the definite article and an 's'. 'The Americans', 'the Brazilians', 'the Italians, 'the Greeks', etc. There are different rules in different books. I remember studying a rule if we are talking about a particular nation in general the article isn't used. 'Americans', 'Italians', 'Greeks', etc.

 

[teechar]

The definite article is not needed if the nationality word is countable.
Americans love music.

However, it is needed if the nationality word is uncountable.
The Chinese are a resourceful people.
The Scottish are a Celtic people.

 

[Rachel Adams]

The definite article is not needed if the nationality word is countable.
Americans love music.

However, it is needed if the nationality word is uncountable.
The Chinese are a resourceful people.
The Scottish are a Celtic people.

Could you please explain the use of 'a' in your examples?

 

[GoesStation]

The Chinese are a resourceful people.
The Scottish are a Celtic people.

Could you please explain the use of 'a' in your examples?

There are many peoples ("ethnic groups"). The Chinese are one of them. They are resourceful.

Remember that "a/an" means "one" (although the words are not usually interchangeable).

 

[Rachel Adams]

There are many peoples ("ethnic groups"). The Chinese are one of them. They are resourceful.

Remember that "a/an" means "one" (although the words are not usually interchangeable).

Is this the only case when an indefinite article can be used before the plural 'people'? :shock:

 

[Rachel Adams]

See definition #3 here: https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/people

Thank you both for mentioning this. I have never paid attention to the definition #3.
Should it be always used with 'the' in this meaning? If either a singular or a plural verb can be used it is not wrong to use 'is' in teeachar's examples and say 'The Chinese is a resourceful people.' 'The Scottish is a Celtic people.' Right?
But I could also say 'The Scottish are Celtic people' and 'The Chinese are resourceful people'. Am I right? Or just 'Scottish people are Celtic people.' 'Chinese people are resourceful people.

 

[GoesStation]

'The Chinese is a resourceful people.' 'The Scottish is a Celtic people.':cross: Right?
But I could also say 'The Scottish are Celtic people' and 'The Chinese are resourceful people'. Am I right? Yes. Or just 'Scottish people are Celtic people.' 'Chinese people are resourceful people.:tick:

Nationalities referred to as, for example, "the Scottish", are always plural.

 

[Tdol]

Nationalities referred to as, for example, "the Scottish", are always plural.

Though some, mostly anti-independents, prefers Scots.

 

[Rachel Adams]

Nationalities referred to as, for example, "the Scottish", are always plural.

So nationalities referred as 'the Scottish' are always plural. In 'The Scottish are a Celtic people' what a strange combination of the plural 'the Scottish' with 'are' and an indefinite article 'a' after it. :shock:
But omitting 'people' is not wrong in these examples either. 'The Chinese are resourceful' and 'The Scottish are Celtic'. Right?
Is it wrong to use 'peoples' in the original examples: 'The Chinese are a resourceful people.' 'The Scottish are a Celtic people'?

 

[Yankee]

Optional IMO.

And for me, AmE.

 

[Rachel Adams]

Could someone answer my question in post #35 please? If it's not wrong to use 'peoples' in these examples? Are 'peoples' and 'a people' synonymous?

 

[teechar]

So nationalities referred as 'the Scottish' are always plural. In 'The Scottish are a Celtic people' what a strange combination of the plural 'the Scottish' with 'are' and an indefinite article 'a' after it. :shock:

It's not strange at all to a native ear/eye. Get used to it! Think of "people" roughly as "nation". Does it work for you now?

But omitting 'people' is not wrong in these examples either. 'The Chinese are resourceful' and 'The Scottish are Celtic'. Right?

Right.

Is it wrong to use 'peoples' in the original examples: 'The Chinese are a resourceful people.' 'The Scottish are a Celtic people'?

Yes, absolutely; "peoples" would be wrong.

 

[GoesStation]

Think of it as "The Scottish, considered as a whole, make up a Celtic ethnic group."

 

[Rachel Adams]

It's not strange at all to a native ear/eye. Get used to it! Think of "people" roughly as "nation". Does it work for you now?


Right.


Yes, absolutely; "peoples" would be wrong.

Please correct me if I am wrong

So 1. 'All the peoples of the world are fighting for peace' =each nation. 2. 'They are a brave people' (not a brave peoples) =a brave nation. In both examples the word peoples/people is used instead of the word 'nation'. Right? I read on a website that one of them is used to describe a community of people I don't remember if the teacher was talking about 'peoples' or 'a people'. I will search for it and post if necessary but I am asking about it to make sure it's not used to talk about just any group of people. 'Peoples' or 'a people' are used to refer to a nation. That's probably what that teacher was talking about.

 

[teechar]

So 1. 'All the peoples of the world are fighting for peace' =each nation. 2. 'They are a brave people' (not a brave peoples) =a brave nation. In both examples the word peoples/people is used instead of the word 'nation'. Right?

Roughly. However, a nation can have several such groups.

I read on a website that one of them is used to describe a community of people, but I don't remember if the teacher was talking about 'peoples' or 'a people'. I will search for it and post if necessary but I am asking about it to make sure it's not used to talk about just any group of people. 'Peoples' or 'a people' are used to refer to a nation. That's probably what that teacher was talking about.

See above.