My teacher suggested to us that we/they should go for a picnic.

[jutfrank]

I don't understand how the speaker (i.e. the coach) is not included in the group of players. When he says "let us", it clearly tells us that he is including himself in the players.

No, the speaker is not the coach. When we say 'speaker', we mean the person who says or writes the sentence. Perhaps this is where you're getting confused.

My teacher said to us, "Let's go for a picnic."

The 'speaker' here is the student who says the sentence, not the teacher. The teacher is just being quoted.

 

[Tait-ka]

No, the speaker is not the coach. When we say 'speaker', we mean the person who says or writes the sentence.

Right. Thanks. I wonder why @emsr2d2 didn't point it out in his/her post#18.

@jutfrank, in the definition below, is the speaker (bolded red) reporter, as you have just told me (post#21)? Or is it the coach/teacher in the examples I gave?

let's = let us: used by a speaker to express to suggest that he or she and those being addressed do something: let's go somewhere else.

Source: Collins Concise English Dictionary

 

[jutfrank]

You're asking for clarification of what a speaker is? When we say 'speaker', we mean the person who says the sentence. Look:

Teacher: Let's go for a picnic.

I've tried to show that the teacher is the speaker here. If a sentence quotes another person's speech, the speaker is the person who is quoting, not the person being quoted. Look:

Student: Mr. Smith said "Let's go for a picnic".

Here, the student is the speaker, not the teacher. The student is merely quoting the teacher's speech—the teacher isn't saying anything right now. The reporter is always the speaker, whether they are reporting directly or indirectly.

 

[Tait-ka]

Thank you so much @jutfrank. I now understand the "speaker" issue.
Now I want to ask about the use of "let's". When someone says it, they may include themself in the suggestion they are making, or they may not. But how can we know whether they are including themself or not? That's my real confusion now.

Mr. Smith said, "Let's go for a picnic".

How can we know that Mr. Smith is including himself in the suggestion or not including?

 

[5jj]

Context.

 

[jutfrank]

When someone uses 'we' or 'us', they are always including themselves in the group because that's what the words mean. Whether a speaker really does mean what they say is a different matter. This is the difference between speaker meaning and word meaning.

 

[Tait-ka]

When someone uses 'we' or 'us', they are always including themselves in the group because that's what the words mean.

Here, by "someone", you mean which speaker? The speaker who says the sentence, or the speaker who is quoting? (You mentioned these two types of speaker in post#23)

Whether a speaker really does mean what they say is a different matter. This is the difference between speaker meaning and word meaning.

Here, you used the word "speaker" two times. Which "speaker" you mean here? The speaker who says the sentence, or the speaker who is quoting?

 

[emsr2d2]

Can we make this simpler by using "speaker" to mean the person who first uttered the words in the direct quote, and "reporter" for the person expressing it later as reported speech?

 

[jutfrank]

Here, by "someone", you mean which speaker? The speaker who says the sentence, or the speaker who is quoting? (You mentioned these two types of speaker in post#23)

Read my posts again and then you tell me the answer to this.

Here, you used the word "speaker" two times. Which "speaker" you mean here? The speaker who says the sentence, or the speaker who is quoting?

I made it very clear what 'speaker' means. Tell me what I said so that I can check you've understood correctly.

 

[jutfrank]

Can we make this simpler by using "speaker" to mean the person who first uttered the words in the direct quote, and "reporter" for the person expressing it later as reported speech?

I would strongly suggest that we don't do that, since the term 'speaker' has a fixed meaning in linguistics and we use it all the time here on the forum in its proper sense. For the person being quoted, we can use 'original speaker' or 'quoted speaker' if that avoids confusion.

 

[Tait-ka]

When someone uses 'we' or 'us', they are always including themselves in the group because that's what the words mean.

I think here you mean the reporter.
My teacher said to us, "Let's go for a picnic."
My teacher suggested to us that we go for a picnic.

The pronouns in red clearly tells us that the reporter is included in the group.

Whether a speaker really does mean what they say is a different matter. This is the difference between speaker meaning and word meaning.

I think here you mean the speaker who says the sentence. For example, when he says "Let's go for a picnic", he might include himself or not. Only he knows that.
Sometimes, he doesn't include himself, as in @emsr2d2's parent, teacher examples (post#18)

 

[5jj]

I am closing this thread for a couple of days to give @Tait-ka tie to re-read and think about all the responses they have received before posting any more questions.

 

[emsr2d2]

I would strongly suggest that we don't do that, since the term 'speaker' has a fixed meaning in linguistics and we use it all the time here on the forum in its proper sense. For the person being quoted, we can use 'original speaker' or 'quoted speaker' if that avoids confusion.

Fair enough. I was thinking only in terms of this one thread, in an attempt to bring it to a close faster. However, 5jj's found a much easier way of doing that!