Negating a sentence twice.

[xXx_Antoni_xXx_PL]

Hello, I have questions about negating a sentence.

In English, they say: I did not see anything. In Polish, we say: I did not see nothing. Now, I am reading Le Morte d'Arthur, and they are speaking in the polish manner:
But Tor was not like none of them all in shape nor in countenance, for he was much more than any of them.

When I was reading Bible, I did notice that they changed no to yes, literally!
Sara denied, saying: I did not laugh: for she was afraid. But the Lord said: Nay; but thou didst laugh.
But Sarah denied, saying, “I did not laugh”; for she was afraid. He said, “Oh yes, you did laugh.”

The Polish Bible is true to the original: Nie. Śmiałaś się! → No. You laughed! The older it gets, the easier it is for me to understand: Le Morte d'Arthur is my favourite english book so far.

My questions are:
Why and when did this change occur? And most importantly, can I negate a sentence twice and be well understood? I do know that online translators struggle with double negated sentences, but what about human beings?

 

[Skrej]

Native English speakers can certainly understand the double negative in English quite easily. Some dialects do actually use it, but the use of it is also widely stigmatized as uneducated. It's generally considered non-standard.

 

[jutfrank]

Why and when did this change occur?

Some time in the 18th century, as far as I know. This is when prescriptivist grammarians largely began standardising modern English. The double negation like you get in Polish still exists in many dialects of English.

And most importantly, can I negate a sentence twice and be well understood?

Probably, yes, but whether you'll be understood depends on so many other factors. If your question is should you do it, then the answer is a big no.

I do know that online translators struggle with double negated sentences, but what about human beings?

I'm not sure what your question here is. Are you asking whether you can get away with translating directly from Polish because it's too hard for you to learn how to do it properly?

 

[xXx_Antoni_xXx_PL]

I'm not sure what your question here is. Are you asking whether you can get away with translating directly from Polish because it's too hard for you to learn how to do it properly?

This time, it is the opposite. I remember translating a long sentence with double negation (from the English book to Polish). And the translation was wrong, till I manually removed one of the negations. I was asking how likely it is for a human to make this mistake.

 

[emsr2d2]

This time, it is the opposite. I remember translating a long sentence with double negation (from the English book to Polish). And the translation was wrong, till I manually removed one of the negations. I was asking how likely it is for a human to make this mistake.

I suspect it all depends on their native language. Also, are you talking about translating to or from English?

 

[xXx_Antoni_xXx_PL]

Also, are you talking about translating to or from English?

Both. It would be nice to translate directly from Polish to English. I found sentences, already in English, with double negation (I was translating from English to Polish), but online translators struggle to translate them sometimes.

 

[jutfrank]

This time, it is the opposite. I remember translating a long sentence with double negation (from the English book to Polish). And the translation was wrong, till I manually removed one of the negations. I was asking how likely it is for a human to make this mistake.

Sorry, I don't understand this. What was this English sentence that had double negation? Can you remember it? And do you mean you removed one of the negations in Polish?

 

[xXx_Antoni_xXx_PL]

Sorry, I don't understand this. What was this English sentence that had double negation? Can you remember it? And do you mean you removed one of the negations in Polish?

It was a long English sentence form the book Le Morte d'Arthur, and it had double negation, but I do not remember it now (and I cannot find it). It was translated incorrectly by an online translator (part of the sentence had opposite meaning), then I removed one of the negations (from English text), and then, it was correctly translated.

 

[jutfrank]

I see. Remember that Le Morte D'Arthur is written in Middle English, which is really a different language from the one we speak today.

 

[emsr2d2]

It was a long English sentence form the book Le Morte d'Arthur, and it had double negation, but I do not remember it now (and I cannot find it). It was translated incorrectly by an online translator (part of the sentence had opposite meaning), then I removed one of the negations (from English text), and then, it was correctly translated.

That seems like it's the wrong way round. If the original is written in English (even if it is Middle English), you can't make the translation correct by changing the original! The only way to make it correct is by changing the translation.

 

[PeterCW]

That seems like it's the wrong way round. If the original is written in English (even if it is Middle English), you can't make the translation correct by changing the original! The only way to make it correct is by changing the translation.

I agree that it's the output that should be corrected. However I would want to understand why there was an issue with the output which could only be tested by varying the input data and comparing the output.