[Grammar] Past perfect tense

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Nanu1

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The Past Perfect expresses the idea that something occurred before another action in the past.

For examples:
1) He had seen such a beautiful place before he went to India.
2) He had never seen such a beautiful place before he went to India.

In (1) past perfect takes place 1st before past simple. I have a doubt in (2), because of the adverb "never" the action not takes place so which takes place 1st either past perfect or past simple? please could you clarify my doubt?
 
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Tdol

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It doesn't matter whether the action took place or didn't- it's the sequence, so both sentences are correct. The first tells me that he had seen places as beautiful as those he saw in India, and the second that he hadn't.
 

Nanu1

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It doesn't matter whether the action took place or didn't- it's the sequence, so both sentences are correct. The first tells me that he had seen places as beautiful as those he saw in India, and the second that he hadn't.

1. "He never saw such a beautiful place before he went to India." Is this sentence correct?
2. "Wow! What a movie! I had never seen such a movie " means Now I have seen it right?
3. "I have never seen such a place before I go to India." Is this grammatically correct sentence?
 
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Matthew Wai

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I think 1 is correct.
2. I never saw such a movie before.
3. I never saw such a place before I went to India.
 
J

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You started this thread, and now you are taking it away from the original subject: The past perfect tense. Perhaps you do not realize this. I will help you correct these examples to reflect the past perfect tense.

1. "He never saw such a beautiful place before he went to India." Is this sentence correct? It is grammatically correct, but not past perfect. He had never seen...

2.
"Wow! What a movie! I had never seen such a movie " means Now I have seen it right? Yes. I had never seen such a movie (before I saw that one).


3.
"I have never seen such a place before I go to India." Is this grammatically correct sentence? No. Go is wrong.
 

Nanu1

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'He had never seen ...' is far more natural.

No. Your sentence is not natural.

No. 'I had never seen such a place before I went to India.'

1."He never saw such a beautiful place before he went to India." This sentence is also correct right?

2. "Wow! What a movie! I had never seen such a movie " means Now I have seen it right? ---Is it wrong?
 
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Nanu1

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You started this thread, and now you are taking it away from the original subject: The past perfect tense. Perhaps you do not realize this. I will help you correct these examples to reflect the past perfect tense.

2. "Wow! What a movie! I had never seen such a movie " means Now I have seen it right? Yes. I had never seen such a movie (before I saw that one).


Could we use past perfect tense sentences as stand alone sentences? Is it compulsory to use past simple with it?
 

Nanu1

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2. I never saw such a movie before.

2. "Wow! What a movie! I had never seen such a movie " means Now I have seen it right? ---Is it wrong?
 
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Could we use past perfect tense sentences as stand alone sentences? I'm not sure what you mean by that. By definition, past perfect takes us another step back in time- a time before the action/situation we are talking about now (the movie we just saw). We may see past perfect sentences by themselves, but in that case, the more recent action will be understood.

Is it compulsory to use past simple with it? In one way or another, yes. If we have a different situation, then we use a different tense.

In your movie example, the speaker would not be able to comment on the movie until after they had watched it. The past perfect is used to comment on movies seen before this latest one.
 
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2. "Wow! What a movie! I had never seen such a movie " means Now I have seen it right? ---Is it wrong?

The only thing 'wrong' is you have left out the punctuation after the word movie in your second sentence.

It does sound a bit odd, though. I would mostly expect to hear this kind of sentence immediately after seeing the movie- perhaps as we are walking out. In such a case, the event is so recent that we can use the present perfect: "Wow! What a movie! I have never seen such a movie!"

Your past perfect construction would be appropriate rather later- perhaps after seeing other movies.
 

Matthew Wai

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I think the simple past is possible there: I never saw such a movie before.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
 

Tdol

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I wouldn't use it, but others might. Let's see .
 

GoesStation

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I would only use the present perfect. I wouldn't be shocked to hear another American use the simple past though.
 

Nanu1

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Sorry for disturbing you all unnecessarily but I need clarity of using these sentences with past perfect.

"I saw a movie before I came here that I had never seen." vs " I had never seen such a movie before I came here". are these have same meaning?
 

Nanu1

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2. "Wow! What a movie! I had never seen such a movie " means Now I have seen it right? ---Is it wrong?

The only thing 'wrong' is you have left out the punctuation after the word movie in your second sentence.

It does sound a bit odd, though. I would mostly expect to hear this kind of sentence immediately after seeing the movie- perhaps as we are walking out. In such a case, the event is so recent that we can use the present perfect: "Wow! What a movie! I have never seen such a movie!"

Your past perfect construction would be appropriate rather later- perhaps after seeing other movies.

"I saw a movie before I came here that I had never seen." vs " I had never seen such a movie before I came here". Do these sentences have the same meaning?
 

Matthew Wai

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"I saw a movie before I came here that I had never seen." vs " I had never seen such a movie before I came here". Do these sentences have the same meaning?
I think the speaker saw the movie before s/he came in the former but after s/he came in the latter.
 
J

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1. "I saw a movie before I came here that I had never seen." vs

2. "I had never seen such a movie before I came here".

Do these sentences have the same meaning?


No. Number 1 doesn't really make much sense. You are talking about some different, other movie that you saw at some earlier time, and you had not seen that movie before. This statement has nothing to do with the movie you just saw.

In #2, there is something special or unique about the movie you just saw. I would rarely say this!
 

Nanu1

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Is anyone Kannada person in this forum?
 

Nanu1

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But someone aswered me like this ---(They don't have the same meaning and those sentences are WRONG in english.It should be:I had been watching a movie before I came here,which I hadn't seen before until then. I had never seen a movie like that until when just before coming here. the "I had never seen such a movie..." is mean that you hadn't seen any movie in your life.)--- Is this correct explanation? Really I confused alot. So please could you correct these if these are wrong 1."I saw a movie before I came here that I had never seen." 2. " I had never seen such a movie before I came here". Are these sentences are grammatically and syntactically correct?
 

Matthew Wai

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I think 2 is grammatical.
I would rewrite 1 as 'Before I came here, I saw a movie I had never seen.'
 
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