[Grammar] proposal verbs are followed by simple verb

[atabitaraf]

We know that proposal verbs and expressions are followed by a simple verb in a that clause.
But however this sentence seems weird to me:
There is a notice on the board that everyone have to register till September.
I think I need to say 'has to' here.
What do you think?

 

[emsr2d2]

You are right. "Everyone" is followed by the singular verb.

 

[Raymott]

We know that proposal verbs and expressions are followed by a simple verb in a that clause."
We do? You might know what I think whenever someone starts a post with "We know that ..." - We usually don't know it, and it's likely untrue.
"Expressions are followed by a simple verb in a that clause." - What are you calling an expression? Can you give a few examples so that I can demonstrate that they do not have to be followed by a that clause.

In any case, "There is a notice on the board saying that everyone has to register by September." There's a missing word.
You are correct about the error with 'have'.

 

[atabitaraf]

Can you give a few examples ...

The rule says it can be followed by a simple verb in that clause.
Some examples of proposal expressions followed by a simple verb in a that clause:
It is important that everyone go studying.
It is vital that everyone be quiet in the ambush.
There is a rule that she be first.
Am I right?

 

[Matthew Wai]

a simple verb

Do you mean the present subjunctive, which is the same as the bare infinitive form?

proposal expressions

Do you mean something like 'I propose that he consult dictionaries'?

Not a teacher.

 

[Raymott]

The rule says it can be followed by a simple verb in that clause.
Some examples of proposal expressions followed by a simple verb in a that clause:
Well you've changed "proposal verbs and expressions" to "proposal expressions". It's almost impossible to answer a question when it keeps changing.
I suggest that you think you have a rule that might exist, but which you can't explain.
It is important that everyone go studying.
It is vital that everyone be quiet in the ambush.
There is a rule that she be first.

So, to your sentences:
"It is important to brush your teeth regularly." (No that clause)
"It is vital to eat a healthy diet." (No that clause)
"There is a rule about many things." (No that clause)
And Matthew's: "I propose a toast." (No that clause)
You ask whether you are right or not. Again this depends on whether you can write your rule in English unambiguously or not. Otherwise there's no way to judge.

 

[atabitaraf]

So, to your sentences:
"It is important to brush your teeth regularly." (No that clause)
"It is vital to eat a healthy diet." (No that clause)
"There is a rule about many things." (No that clause)
And Matthew's: "I propose a toast." (No that clause)

Most respectfully thank for your help but I said it can NOT it must. All your sentences are clear to me but the question is that if the following rule is correct?
Proposal expressions, including proposal verbs, can be followed by a simple verb (bare infinitive) in a that clause.

 

[atabitaraf]

Do you mean the present subjective, which is the same as the bare infinitive form?

Yes sure.

Do you mean something like 'I propose that he consult dictionaries'?

Not a teacher.

Yes sure.

 

[Raymott]

Most respectfully thank for your help but I said it can NOT it must.
Just as respectfully, I'll explain. You said, "We know that proposal verbs and expressions are followed by a simple verb in a that clause." You said neither 'can' nor 'must'. "Are followed" generally means "are always followed" in English when you are stating a rule. For example, you can't say, "We know that babies are female", and then say that you meant that they can be female. That's not what such a sentence means.

Proposal expressions, including proposal verbs, can be followed by a simple verb (bare infinitive) in a that clause.

Yes, they can be. I agree.

 

[Rover_KE]

Do you mean the present subjective, which is the same as the bare infinitive form?

I think you mean the present subjunctive.

 

[Matthew Wai]

Yes, it was a typo, sorry for that.

 

[atabitaraf]

Yes, they can be. I agree.

Now, my problem is if they can follow so when can't they follow?
For example why can't I say 'It is written on the board that everyone have to register prior to Sep.'?
Because 'have to' is the base form of 'has to'
Thanks again.

 

[emsr2d2]

I don't understand your question. We've already told you that the verb which follows "everyone" must be in the third person singular.

Everyone has to register before September.
The sign says that everyone has to register before September.
The writing on the board explain that everyone has to register before September.

What has the "base form" (bare infinitive) got to do with anything?

The sentence you quoted has nothing to do with the subjunctive.

I suggest that everyone bring a torch. (That's a proposal followed by everyone followed by the bare infinitive.)

 

[Matthew Wai]

'It is essential that everyone have to register before September.'
Can I use the present subjunctive here?

Not a teacher.

 

[atabitaraf]

I don't understand your question. We've already told you that the verb which follows "everyone" must be in the third person singular.

Everyone has to register before September.
The sign says that everyone has to register before September.
The writing on the board explain that everyone has to register before September.

What has the "base form" (bare infinitive) got to do with anything?

The sentence you quoted has nothing to do with the subjunctive.

I suggest that everyone bring a torch. (That's a proposal followed by everyone followed by the bare infinitive.)

Can the proposal verb/expression be followed by a modal too? Like must, should, have to.
I suggest that everyone must register before Sept.
I suggest that everyone has to register before Sept.
How come can't I use the bare infinitive of 'have to' in my last sentence?

 

[MikeNewYork]

Matthew, you can use the present subjunctive, but that would be "It is essential that everyone register before September."

 

[Raymott]

Now, my problem is if they can follow so when can't they follow?

This is getting a bit complicated.
The opposition we are discussing is that just because something can follow something else, it need not; it doesn't have to. I'm not claiming that it can't.

If you say "A follows B", especially "We know that A follows B", that means "A always follows B" (a general truth). If I then point out that sometimes C follows B, that means i) that A doesn't have to follow B, not ii) that A can't follow B. You can say, "It is written on the board that everyone has to register prior to September." You don't have to; that doesn't mean you must not.

 

[atabitaraf]

This is getting a bit complicated.
The opposition we are discussing is that just because something can follow something else, it need not; it doesn't have to. I'm not claiming that it can't.

If you say "A follows B", especially "We know that A follows B", that means "A always follows B" (a general truth). If I then point out that sometimes C follows B, that means i) that A doesn't have to follow B, not ii) that A can't follow B. (So A can follow B.) You can say, "It is written on the board that everyone has to register prior to September." You don't have to; that doesn't mean you must not.

Based on what I learned, there is not any problem with 'It is written on the board that everyone have to register prior to September.'
Am I right? 'have to' is the bare infinitive of 'has to.'

 

[Raymott]

Based on what I learned, there is not any problem with 'It is written on the board that everyone have to register prior to September.'
Am I right? 'have to' is the bare infinitive of 'has to.'

No, you've been told correctly that is has to be "has to".
The subjunctive takes the bare infinitive, as in "It is necessary that everyone stay after the meeting." Your sentence is not subjunctive, but I can't think of an example of the subjunctive use of ''have to". In your sentence, a subjunctive example would be "I order that everyone register prior to September." It is implicit that they 'have to' or 'must'.

PS: You've coloured my "So A can follow B". Did you have a question about that?

 

[atabitaraf]

No, you've been told correctly that is has to be "has to".
The subjunctive takes the bare infinitive, as in "It is necessary that everyone stay after the meeting." Your sentence is not subjunctive, but I can't think of an example of the subjunctive use of ''have to". In your sentence, a subjunctive example would be "I order that everyone register prior to September." It is implicit that they 'have to' or 'must'.

PS: You've coloured my "So A can follow B". Did you have a question about that?

Oh, I thought the subjunctive of 'has to' is 'have to.' Do you mean that the subjunctive is 'has to?' Or it does not have any subjunctive?