. . . rubbish that needed taking out.

[shootingstar]

Indeed, twenty minutes later she was standing in the hallway of her appartment, staring at four bags of rubbish that needed taking out.

(The Midnight Library by Matt Haig, episode Fire)

What sort of ing-form is "taking out"? Doesn't it have to be "rubbish that needed being taken out"?

 

[jutfrank]

The pattern here is need + -ing. It's quite common.

The front bedroom needs decorating.
Your hair needs cutting again.
This shirt needs ironing.

You can see that the subject of the verb 'need' in this pattern is the thing that receives not performs the action expressed by the -ing word.

 

[tedmc]

Both the infinitive and the gerund forms work.
Your "rubbish that needed being taken out" is not natural.

 

[shootingstar]

The front bedroom needs decorating.
Your hair needs cutting again.
This shirt needs ironing.

You can see that the subject of the verb 'need' in this pattern is the thing that receives . . . the action expressed by the -ing word.

That's just it, that's just the point! "Front bedroom", "hair", "shirt" is the subject of "need + (. . .)" - they receive someting, something is done with them! The front bedroom needs to be decorated / Your hair needs to be cut / This shirt needs to be ironed - passive voice every time; but then "The front bedroom needs decorating" instead of "The front bedroom needs being decorated" etc. - no passive voice! What's the reason of this change of mind?

 

[jutfrank]

Yes, that's right. You've grasped the point. Think of the verb 'need' as belonging to a special kind of 'subject-affected' verb. Other verbs in this class:

Bernhardt's ideas deserve exploring in depth.
That plant looks like it wants watering.
The software requires updating.

None of these sentences are strictly in the passive or active voice. It's sometimes described as a 'middle voice', somewhere between the two.

 

[shootingstar]

I've thought about this issue once again. Don't you also think the term "gerund" could suffice to solve this problem (to seize tedmc's notion)? If not, please explain to me why not.

 

[jutfrank]

Don't you also think the term "gerund" could suffice to solve this problem (to seize tedmc's notion)?

What problem?

Are you asking whether you can call the -ing form a 'gerund'? Well, if you really want to call it that, then go ahead because it really doesn't matter. My recommendation as a teacher?: Call it an -ing form. The important point is that the verb has an -ing suffix.

 

[5jj]

What problem?

Quite.

The only 'problem' is that there is a small group of what jutfrank has usefully called 'subject-affected' verbs.

 

[shootingstar]

The only 'problem' is that there is a small group of what jutfrank has usefully called 'subject-affected' verbs.

What problem do you mean when you are saying "The only 'problem' is that there is a small group of what jutfrank has usefully called 'subject-affected' verbs."?

 

[5jj]

I put the word problem in inverted commas to suggest that I don't see it as a problem.