Tenses following "IF"

[DANAU]

Hi,

Can you tell me which of the following sentences is correct?

1. We will not be able to go vacation if father change his mind

2. We will not be able to go vacation if father changes his mind

3. We will not be able to go vacation if father were to change his mind

Is there a rule which I can follow?

 

[tedmc]

No. 2 is correct. It comes under the first conditional which takes the form: possible condition + probable result.

The "rule" is found here:
https://www.englishclub.com/grammar/verbs-conditional.htm

 

[emsr2d2]

DANAU, did you notice that Piscean capitalised "Father" in all three of your sentences? Do you know why?

 

[DANAU]

DANAU, did you notice that Piscean capitalised "Father" in all three of your sentences? Do you know why?

Sorry Piscean, I actually missed it totally !

Dear emsrd2d, I have not noticed that at all ! I am really glad that you have pointed it all and you are really good that somehow you could tell I have overlooked. Not surprising, I have totally no clue as to why Father must be in capital letter. I am really falling in love with this platform that enables me to learn so much from all the experts, particularly from you who masters the Queen's English.

 

[emsr2d2]

Sorry Piscean, I [STRIKE]actually[/STRIKE] totally missed that. [STRIKE]it totally![/STRIKE]

[STRIKE]Dear[/STRIKE] Emsr2d2, I [STRIKE]have not noticed[/STRIKE] did not notice that at all! I am really glad that you have pointed it [STRIKE]all[/STRIKE] out, and I think it was good of you [STRIKE]are really good that somehow you could[/STRIKE] to tell me something I [STRIKE]have[/STRIKE] had overlooked. Not surprisingly, I have [strike]totally[/strike] no clue as to why "Father" must be [STRIKE]in capital letters[/STRIKE] capitalised. I am really falling in love with this platform that enables me to learn so much from all the experts, particularly from you who has [STRIKE]masters[/STRIKE] mastered the Queen's English.

Please note my corrections above, particularly to the punctuation.

It needed to be capitalised in your sentences because you were using "Father" as a title, not as a common noun. Note the difference between these:

I saw Father eating lunch at a restaurant.
I saw my father eating lunch at a restaurant.

I heard Mum calling me from downstairs.
I heard my mum calling me from downstairs.

We loved Granddad very much.
We loved our granddad very much.

(The language I speak is my country's English - it doesn't belong to the queen or any other individual! ;-) Seriously, though, "the Queen's English" is an outdated phrase and I suggest you don't use it.)

 

[DANAU]

Please note my corrections above, particularly to the punctuation.

It needed to be capitalised in your sentences because you were using "Father" as a title, not as a common noun. Note the difference between these:

I saw Father eating lunch at a restaurant.
I saw my father eating lunch at a restaurant.

I heard Mum calling me from downstairs.
I heard my mum calling me from downstairs.

We loved Granddad very much.
We loved our granddad very much.

(The language I speak is my country's English - it doesn't belong to the queen or any other individual! ;-) Seriously, though, "the Queen's English" is an outdated phrase and I suggest you don't use it.)

Dear ems,

I first learnt the phrase "Queen's English" from my tutor, and that was more than 20 years ago.

Looking at your corrections to my sentences, I have further questions to seek clarification.

Lately I have learnt about verbs of perception, and the rule is that the tense following the verbs of perception should be simple present.
Below are a few examples:

I saw him take from the box and not I saw him took from the box
I heard him talk to his mother and not I heard him talked to his mother.

In your above example, "I saw Father eating lunch at a restaurant.", can I also write as I saw my Father eat lunch ?

Also, appreciate you can explain why " I have not noticed " is incorrect and it should be written as "I did not notice"

 

[Tarheel]

I saw him take from the box

There is something missing there.

(When you isolate your exclamation marks you make them feel lonesome.)

 

[emsr2d2]

[STRIKE]Dear ems,[/STRIKE]

I first learnt the phrase "Queen's English" from my tutor, and that was more than 20 years ago.

Looking at your corrections to my sentences, I have further questions to seek clarification.

Lately, I have [STRIKE]learnt[/STRIKE] been learning (or "Recently, I learnt") about verbs of perception, and the rule is that the tense following [STRIKE]the[/STRIKE] verbs of perception should be simple present.

Below are a [STRIKE]few[/STRIKE] couple of examples:

"I saw him take from the box" and not "I saw him took from the box".
"I heard him talk to his mother" and not "I heard him talked to his mother".

In your [STRIKE]above[/STRIKE] previous example, "I saw Father eating lunch at a restaurant", can I also write it as "I saw my father eat lunch"?

Also, I would appreciate it if you [STRIKE]can[/STRIKE] could explain why "I have not noticed" is incorrect and it should be written as "I did not notice".

Note my corrections above.

Piscean has already answered the question about tenses after verbs of perception.

"I have not noticed" wasn't the right tense because the present perfect is used for actions that happened in the past but have some connection to the present. For example, "I have not noticed any corrections to my spelling on this forum". In your sentence, you were referring to a specific and finished action that has no relevance to the present. The longer version would have been "When I read your response, I did not notice that Piscean had capitalised Father".

 

[DANAU]

It is not simple present.

The form is either the bare infinitive, usually if the whole action is seen/heard/etc, or the -ing form, usually when only part of the action is seen/heard/etc.


I saw him open the door.
I saw him walking in the woods.

Yes, it is the bare infinitive. I have just learnt this last week, but I am still trying to digest its meaning and form.
Sad to say, though I am a graduate, my English standard is worst than the elementary grade in your country.
But I feel really privileged to have you and ems teaching me with such patience.
I hope both of you can continue to correct my mistakes, and I am really glad to see the many red markings which uncover the bad punctuation and grammar which I was (or am?) not aware before.

 

[tedmc]

Yes, it is the bare infinitive. I [STRIKE]have [/STRIKE]just learned this last week, but I am still trying to digest its meaning and form.
Sad to say, though I am a graduate, my English standard is worse/lower than the elementary grade in your country.
But I feel really privileged to have you and ems teaching me with such patience.
I hope both of you can continue to correct my mistakes, and I am really glad to see the many red markings which [STRIKE]uncover[/STRIKE] highlight the bad punctuation and grammar which I was [STRIKE](or am?)[/STRIKE] not aware of before.

See my corrections above.

 

[DANAU]

You can say I have just learnt this or I learnt this last week, but you can't use the present perfect with a past -time marker - [STRIKE]I have just learnt this last week[/STRIKE].

Both learnt and learned are possible for the second form (past simple) and third form (past participle) in BrE.

Yes, with past-time marker it should always be simple past. Only when there is no past-time marker then present/past perfect can be used.

 

[jutfrank]

Isn't this thread supposed to be about conditional sentences?

No. 2 is correct. It comes under the first conditional which takes the form: possible condition + probable result.

Yes, 2 is correct as this is indeed a first conditional. However, this example does not express a 'probable result'.

The idea is that not being able to go on vacation is a logical consequence of Father's change of mind.

 

[DANAU]

Note my corrections above.

Piscean has already answered the question about tenses after verbs of perception.

"I have not noticed" wasn't the right tense because the present perfect is used for actions that happened in the past but have some connection to the present. For example, "I have not noticed any corrections to my spelling on this forum". In your sentence, you were referring to a specific and finished action that has no relevance to the present. The longer version would have been "When I read your response, I did not notice that Piscean had capitalised Father".

Hi ems ,

I am reading through the corrections again so as to better understand the concepts.

I have a question regarding your statement. “I have not noticed”wasn’t the right tense... “

Given it still remains a fact so why not we use “isn’t” instead of “wasn’t”?

 

[emsr2d2]

Hi emsr2d2, (Please use usernames in full. Thanks.)

I am reading through the corrections again so as to better understand the concepts.

I have a question regarding your statement no full stop here “I have not noticed” space here wasn’t the right tense... “

Given it still remains a fact, [STRIKE]so[/STRIKE] why [STRIKE]not we[/STRIKE] didn't you use “isn’t” instead of “wasn’t”?

Because, again, I was referring to a single instance so the past simple was appropriate. I was referring specifically to "When you wrote I have not noticed, it wasn't the right tense".

 

[Tdol]

(The language I speak is my country's English - it doesn't belong to the queen or any other individual! ;-) Seriously, though, "the Queen's English" is an outdated phrase and I suggest you don't use it.)

And the Queen's English is a bit outdated, though her recent broadcast was very moving.

 

[DANAU]

Because, again, I was referring to a single instance so the past simple was appropriate. I was referring specifically to "When you wrote I have not noticed, it wasn't the right tense".

Sorry, I will address your full name in future.
I like your profile picture with C-3PO correcting R2-D2; it is a picture that depicts "a strict teacher will produce a good student".

 

[DANAU]

And the Queen's English is a bit outdated, though her recent broadcast was very moving.

Hi Tdol,

I am still trying hard to grasp the concept of tenses in relation to time.
Can I understand the second part of your sentence in this way:since the broadcast by emsrd2d2 is still moving,can we use simple present tense?
That is,can I write - her recent broadcast "is" very moving instead of "was"? In this way,the tense within the same sentence will also be the same.
I have read that we should keep to the same tense within the same sentence as far as possible.

 

[emsr2d2]

Hi Tdol,

I am still trying hard to grasp the concept of tenses in relation to time.

Can I understand the second part of your sentence in this way? Since the broadcast by [STRIKE]emsrd2d2[/STRIKE] emsr2d2 (please copy usernames correctly)is still moving, space after a comma can we use simple present tense?
That is, space after a comma can I write "Her recent broadcast "is" very moving" instead of "was"? In this way, space after a comma the tense within the same sentence will also be the same.

I have read that we should keep to the same tense within the same sentence as far as possible.

Firstly, whilst it's lovely to think that I recently made a moving speech, Tdol was referring to the queen's recent televised speech about coronavirus and other stuff.
No, you can't say the speech is moving. You could have said that while it was being broadcast. It is now in the past so it is no longer moving. It's over. It was moving.

Take care with your spacing around punctuation. Remember to put a space after every comma, full stop, question mark and exclamation mark.

 

[DANAU]

Firstly, whilst it's lovely to think that I recently made a moving speech, Tdol was referring to the queen's recent televised speech about coronavirus and other stuff.
No, you can't say the speech is moving. You could have said that while it was being broadcast. It is now in the past so it is no longer moving. It's over. It was moving.

Take care with your spacing around punctuation. Remember to put a space after every comma, full stop, question mark and exclamation mark.

Oh dear, I got it mixed up. OK, I will pay attention to my punctuation.