The usage of "there is the"

[ROFTOK]

But they do, in some contexts, as you have been told.

No. They don't say 'There is the book on the table' instead of "The book is on the table."

 

[jutfrank]

jutfrank, I think you are not finished with the explanation. I am all set to read your further explanation.

I'm happy to go on if you have any further questions, otherwise I'll leave it there, as it seems from your latest posts that you've understood the main issue.

The question of usage of definite/indefinite noun phrases is tremendously difficult to understand for a native Russian speaker like yourself. If you do have any questions regarding the differing reference between articles a and the, it will be better to start a new thread.

By the way, I completely agree that English is 'logical'. In fact, logic is based entirely on language! I think that when members say that English is not logical, they merely mean to say that there are certain inconsistencies in logical rules, or that sometimes the best explanations are historical and/or grounded purely in common usage.

 

[5jj]

By the way, I completely agree that English is 'logical'. In fact, logic is based entirely on language!

 

[jutfrank]

I honestly can't see how you can even begin to disagree. Would you care to share your thoughts?

 

[5jj]

I honestly can't see how you can even begin to disagree.

Why am I not surprised?

Would you care to share your thoughts?

No.

 

[Barque]

but saying that it has no logic it's a stretch.

Please stop misinterpreting my words. You've done this before too. I didn't say it has no logic. I said it isn't logical. That means you can't always figure it out with logic.

I am pretty sure that there is a reason behind why people don't say There is the book...

Yes, there is. The reason is that they don't say it. The reason is that that's the way it is.

They don't say 'There is the book on the table' instead of "The book is on the table."

That's right. You may not want to accept it but nothing you say is going to change that fact. The 300 million native English speakers of the world will still not say it, however much you might want them to.

It sounds to me as if you won't give up till you get the answer you want, whether it's the right answer or not. Good luck with that. I'm out of here. I can't be arsed anymore.

You're going on my Ignore list. I'm not going to see anything you say in reply.

 

[ROFTOK]

Please stop misinterpreting my words. You've done this before too. I didn't say it has no logic. I said it isn't logical. That means you can't always figure it out with logic.

Do you mean that its logic is not logical? Then what's the point in such a logic if it's not logical?

Yes, there is. The reason is that they don't say it. The reason is that that's the way it is.

It's not the reason it is the aftermath.

That's right. You may not want to accept it but nothing you say is going to change that fact. The 300 million native English speakers of the world will still not say it, however much you might want them to.

What gives you the idea that I want them to do it? I just want to understand how "there is the" works.

It sounds to me as if you won't give up till you get the answer you want, whether it's the right answer or not. Good luck with that. I'm out of here. I can't be arsed anymore.

You're going on my Ignore list. I'm not going to see anything you say in reply.

It's your problem. I never offended you so I am not responsible for your tantrum. And remember, people don't have to worship your answers and advice. It's up to them. But some of your answers were very good. All the best.

 

[emsr2d2]

What gives you the idea that I want them to do it? I just want to understand how "there is the" works.

You've already been given one main example - the idea of sudden realisation of where something is. However, native speakers wouldn't use "There is" in it; they'd use "There's".

I've been looking for my book for three hours when I suddenly spot it on a table. I exclaim "Ohhh! There's the book!" The emphasis would be very strongly on "There's". You could add the location but there would be a pause in speech, and punctuation in writing. It would read "Ohhh! There's the book - on the table! I'm sure I looked there earlier."

The only other context I can think of is when giving a list of examples:

A: What big cats can you think of?
B: Well, there's the lion, the tiger, the jaguar and the leopard. I can't think of any more.

A: What examples of printed material can you think of?
B: Hmm, let me think. There's the book, the magazine, the newspaper, the journal, the pamphlet ... that's it. I don't know any others.

No matter how many times you ask, or come up with new examples, "There is the book on the table" will never be correct as a standalone sentence.

 

[ROFTOK]

I never said that I wanted "There is the book on the table" to be correct or incorrect. I'm not the one who establishes correctness or otherwise.
You came up with good examples. I can add to them this:

1 There's the oddest-looking man standing at the front door!

2 While reading your examples, I got a question. Is this sentence possible if it's turned into interrogative?
"Ohhh! There's the book - on the table! I'm sure I looked there earlier." - "Ohhh! Is there the book - on the table? I'm sure I looked there earlier."
3 How would you pin point the usage of "there is the" in:

"The man of the world was more than ever determined to see what she was made of. Along the terrace he kept close at her elbow. He had within him much good wine. There was the long drive home, the long drive and the warm dark and the pleasant closeness of the hansom cab with its insulation from the world devised by some great and good man."

 

[jutfrank]

1 There's the oddest-looking man standing at the front door!

Good example.

Is this sentence possible if it's turned into interrogative?
"Ohhh! Is there the book - on the table? I'm sure I looked there earlier."

No, that's not right. If I understand correctly what you mean, you'd use referential that instead of there in this context: Ohhh! Is that the book—on the table? If you really want to use referential there, you could say Ohhh! Is that the book there—on the table?

You can't perform interrogative inversion with referential there—only with existential there.

There's a book.
Is there a book?

Both are fine, since inversion works with the existential use. But it doesn't work with the referential use:

There's my book!
Is there my book?

3 How would you pin point the usage of "there is the" in:

"The man of the world was more than ever determined to see what she was made of. Along the terrace he kept close at her elbow. He had within him much good wine. There was the long drive home, the long drive and the warm dark and the pleasant closeness of the hansom cab with its insulation from the world devised by some great and good man."

It seems to be the existential use of 'there', combined with a definite noun phrase.

 

[ROFTOK]

What do you think of this example? "On my bed, there is the gift..." It's not pointing. What is it?

 

[5jj]

That link leads me to:

Website blocked due to trojan​

Website blocked: wdfiles.ru

Malwarebytes Browser Guard blocked this website because it may contain malware activity.​

 

[ROFTOK]

That link leads me to:

Website blocked due to trojan​

Website blocked: wdfiles.ru

Malwarebytes Browser Guard blocked this website because it may contain malware activity.​

It is visible on my end. I will change the website.

 

[ROFTOK]

Well. as of now, I have only found this one. But it doesn't get displayed on the forum. Still you can download it. Would be great if someone downloaded in on their computer and then uploaded it here for all to be able to see.

DropMeFiles – free one-click file sharing service

Share your pictures, send large videos, exchange music or transfer big files. No registration required. Unlimited upload/download speed.

dropmefiles.com

 

[5jj]

There is no need. We can see the text now.

I strongly recomment people do not download things from the net.

 

[Rover_KE]

… especially as a browser guard has warned that it may contain malware.

 

[ROFTOK]

Seems like the question in 54 is too hard. I had expected that...

 

[jutfrank]

What's your question, ROFTOK? You want to know why the definite article is used there?

It's because the gift from my parents is a definite noun phrase. As I told you before, you can use definite noun phrases with existential there is. It isn't common to do that, but it is possible. The speaker of that sentence is making specific reference to the gift.

 

[ROFTOK]

What's your question, ROFTOK? You want to know why the definite article is used there?

It's because the gift from my parents is a definite noun phrase. As I told you before, you can use definite noun phrases with existential there is. It isn't common to do that, but it is possible. The speaker of that sentence is making specific reference to the gift.

So, this would work?

There are many things in my room. There is a carpet on the floor. There are many pieces of furniture. There is the book, which my parents presented me with, on the desk. Actually, I keep it there.

 

[jutfrank]

Yes, right. You've understood.