The usage of "there is the"

[5jj]

No.

So, this would work?

There are many things in my room. There is a carpet on the floor. There are many pieces of furniture. There is the book, which my parents presented me with, on the desk. Actually, I keep it there.

I'd say no. It would work without the commas.

 

[ROFTOK]

There are many things in my room. There is a carpet on the floor. There are many pieces of furniture. There is a book, which my parents presented me with, on the desk. Actually, I keep it there.

If I put "a" instead of "the". Would that imply that my parents gave me more than one book or not necessarily?

 

[jutfrank]

I'd say no. It would work without the commas.

Ah, yes, right. I read the sentence too quickly.

 

[5jj]

If I put "a" instead of "the". Would that imply that my parents gave me more than one book or not necessarily?

Not necessarily.

 

[ROFTOK]

Not necessarily.

What's the difference then if both can mean only one book?

There are many things in my room. There is a carpet on the floor. There are many pieces of furniture. There is the book which my parents presented me with on the desk. Actually, I keep it there.

There are many things in my room. There is a carpet on the floor. There are many pieces of furniture. There is a book which my parents presented me with on the desk. Actually, I keep it there.

 

[5jj]

There is a book which my parents presented me with on the desk. Actually, I keep it there.

You have removed the commas that were there in post #62. That's a different sentence, with a different meaning.

 

[ROFTOK]

Do you mean that there are three sentences with difference meanings?

1 There is the book which my parents presented me with on the desk. Actually, I keep it there.
2 There is a book which my parents presented me with on the desk. Actually, I keep it there.
3 There is a book, which my parents presented me with, on the desk. Actually, I keep it there.

It's fascinating. I would be obliged if someone could reveal the meanings of the three.

 

[5jj]

Why not have a go yourself?

 

[ROFTOK]

Have no idea. The only difference I can see is that "a book" can mean that there is more than one book which was given.

 

[5jj]

Have no idea.

If you are at that stage after all the responses you have received in this thread, I don't think anything I can say will help you here.

 

[ROFTOK]

If you are at that stage after all the responses you have received in this thread, I don't think anything I can say will help you here.

Well, nothing that was said in this thread was said about the comparison of similar sentences.

1 There is the book which my parents presented me with on the desk. Actually, I keep it there.
2 There is a book which my parents presented me with on the desk. Actually, I keep it there.

No similar comparison has been made

2 There is a book which my parents presented me with on the desk. Actually, I keep it there.
3 There is a book, which my parents presented me with, on the desk. Actually, I keep it there.

Not even close

But if you don't want to answer so be it. I don't like to pressurize people who choose not to help.

 

[5jj]

OK.

 

[Tarheel]

In my humble opinion it would be much more natural to say your parents gave you the book.

 

[jutfrank]

At 74 posts so far, this thread may be a record breaker.

ROFTOK, I think that you've understood the main differences between existential and referential there is, and from your post #59 I have reason to believe you have at least a starting understanding of definite noun phrases. Your question now, as far as I can see, really only concerns the very basic semantic difference between a and the. You can essentially boil it down to this:

What is the difference in reference between the following?:

a book
the book

We don't need to complicate things any further.

 

[ROFTOK]

What is the difference in reference between the following?:

a book
the book

We don't need to complicate things any further.

You know simple things may be not as simple as they seem to be. The difference between:
This is a book. and This is the book - is clear. But this is, I must admit, not simple.

This is a book which you gave me.
This is the book which you gave me.

On top of that, 5JJ said this:

There is a book which my parents presented me with on the desk. Actually, I keep it there.

You have removed the commas that were there in post #62. That's a different sentence, with a different meaning.

It leads me to realize that there are three sentences with different meanings. My English is not so bad for a person whose first language is not English but I have no idea what these three actually mean:

1 There is the book which my parents presented me with on the desk. Actually, I keep it there.
2 There is a book which my parents presented me with on the desk. Actually, I keep it there.
3 There is a book, which my parents presented me with, on the desk. Actually, I keep it there.

I am sure that almost none of the people in the whole world whose first language is not English will be able to explain the difference.

 

[White Hat]

Let me try. (Neither a teacher (not at the moment) nor a native speaker)

1. There is the book which my parents gave me on the desk. ->This suggests that the person you’re talking to already KNOWS something about this book.
2. There is a book which my parents gave me on the desk. -> This suggests that it is one of the books they have ever given you.
3. There is a book, which my parents gave me, on the desk. -> This suggests that you also sometimes put there books that other people gave you.

 

[jutfrank]

You know simple things may be not as simple as they seem to be. The difference between:
This is a book. and This is the book - is clear. But this is, I must admit, not simple.

This is a book which you gave me.
This is the book which you gave me.

The difference between these two sentences is simple, as I said. The only difference is that the first uses an indefinite noun phrase and the second a definite one, as shown by the different articles. The phrase which you gave me, which in both cases has exactly the same meaning, is unnecessary to explain the basic difference.

On top of that, 5JJ said this:

It leads me to realize that there are three sentences with different meanings. My English is not so bad for a person whose first language is not English but I have no idea what these three actually mean:

1 There is the book which my parents presented me with on the desk. Actually, I keep it there.
2 There is a book which my parents presented me with on the desk. Actually, I keep it there.
3 There is a book, which my parents presented me with, on the desk. Actually, I keep it there.

You're complicating things unnecessarily. First you need to understand the fundamental difference between a and the. When you can see that, the difference will be revealed. The phrase on the table means exactly the same thing in all three sentences, and so does the phrase which my parents gave me, and so does There is, so you can eliminate all of these phrases to reduce the question to its fundament, which is this:

What's the difference in reference between the following?:

a book
the book

Stay here with this question. If you care to attempt to answer it, I'll tell you if you're on the right track.

 

[ROFTOK]

I don't see the matter as an easy one. I'll explain.

1 There is the book which my parents gave me on the desk. - it supposedly means that the listener knows about the book that's why it is specific. But we have an example in this picture, which doesn't support this opinion:

upload 2017 11 26 14 17 46 — Postimages

postimg.cc

On my bed, there is the gift from Mom and Dad.
The context doesn't say that the listener knows about this gift, still THE is used. Why?

And what's the difference between
There is the book which my parents gave me on the desk.
The book which my parents gave me is on the desk.

2. There is a book which my parents gave me on the desk.
This supposedly means that it's a book the listener doesn't know about. But as I mentioned in the first example, the listener doesn't know anything about the book in the picture. So, there is no practical difference.

Bennevis said this:
3. There is a book, which my parents gave me, on the desk. -> This suggests that you also sometimes put there books that other people gave you.

I have no idea how they came to this conslusion.

 

[5jj]

I don't see the matter as an easy one. I'll explain.

1 There is the book which my parents gave me on the desk. - it supposedly means that the listener knows about the book that's why it is specific. But we have an example in this picture, which doesn't support this opinion:

upload 2017 11 26 14 17 46 — Postimages

postimg.cc

That is a different situation, similar to the "There was the long drive home, the long drive and the warm dark and the pleasant closeness of the hansom cab with its insulation from the world devised by some great and good man" that we discussed earlier.

 

[jutfrank]

I don't see the matter as an easy one.

I didn't mean to say it was easy—far from it! I said the difference was simple. If you want to see the difference between two things clearly, which on the surface appear complex, you need to simplify them, to reach the minimal difference.

1 There is the book which my parents gave me on the desk. - it supposedly means that the listener knows about the book that's why it is specific.

On my bed, there is the gift from Mom and Dad.
The context doesn't say that the listener knows about this gift, still THE is used. Why?

2. There is a book which my parents gave me on the desk.
This supposedly means that it's a book the listener doesn't know about.

But as I mentioned in the first example, the listener doesn't know anything about the book in the picture. So, there is no practical difference.

Ah, okay. We can now see that you're trying to understand things in terms of what the listener knows about. Where did you get this idea from? I suggest you put it aside right away. It doesn't help explain anything. If I point at something, I don't necessarily need you as a listener to have prior awareness of the thing's existence.