[Grammar] This is the first time/Past Simpel/Past Perfect/Present Simple

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Kotfor

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What is the difference between?

1) That was the first time he has seen the movie.
2) That was the first time he had seen the movie.
3) That was the first time he saw the movie.
 

SirGod

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*Not a teacher

The first one is not correct. In your example, you are not allowed to use a present tense in the subordinate clause because there is a past tense in the main clause, so in the subordinate clause must be used a past tense (past simple, past perfect, the future in the past etc).

You can say: This is the first time he has seen this movie.

The second one is good. You used a perfect tense (and a past tense, required by the sequence of tenses).

The third one is also incorrect, we use perfect tenses with "the first time" (usually present perfect, but you are not allowed to use a present tense in your example (the sequence of tenses)).
 
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Kotfor

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I didn't make them up but I picked them up from native speakers. I am pretty sure they are all correct.
 

SirGod

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I didn't make them up but I picked them up from native speakers. I am pretty sure they are all correct.

Then wait for a teacher to confirm, but I am sure about what I've said. The first one is not grammatically correct and the third one is not completely correct, it may be accepted, though.
 

5jj

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The first one is not correct. :tick:.....You can say: This is the first time he has seen this movie.:tick:

The second one is good. :tick:

The third one is also incorrect [...] it may be accepted, though. :tick:

Then wait for a teacher to confirm.
Confirmed.
Fivejedjon (retired teacher of English, native speaker of BrE):cool:.
 

Kotfor

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Thank you fivejedjon,

1) As for the first sentence. I am surprised to realize that you find it incorrect. Why do I think it is correct? Because this sentence was presented, so to speak, by a native speaker from Ireland. He is very much into English.

Here it is another example which shouldn't be wrong


Last week was the first time we have had snow in years.

We can transform it into - That was the first time time we have had snow.

If you find this sentence wrong, please, let me know.

2) As for the second one. I am also surprised to know that you think it is not perfectly fine. I would realy like to know why you think so. A few native speakers confirmed that it is fine. Most of them were from the US some from England. So I am puzzled why you think they are not ok.

3) I still would like to know the difference between them.
 

Kotfor

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I would like to back up the first sentence with additional examples

1) That was the first time I have ever subscribed to the ancient, revered art of prostitution.

2) I tried to restrain him before that . . . that was the first time I have felt that . . . we have always had, the children and I, have had a very physical, we are quite physical

3) I had heard about smoking speed before but that was the first time I have even seen a speed pipe.

4) I was exhausted, that was the first time I have ever been thoroughly exhausted.
 
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bhaisahab

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Thank you fivejedjon,

1) As for the first sentence. I am surprised to realize that you find it incorrect. Why do I think it is correct? Because this sentence was presented, so to speak, by a native speaker from Ireland. He is very much into English.

Here it is another example which shouldn't be wrong


Last week was the first time we have had snow in years.

We can transform it into - That was the first time time we have had snow.

If you find this sentence wrong, please, let me know.

2) As for the second one. I am also surprised to know that you think it is not perfectly fine. I would realy like to know why you think so. A few native speakers confirmed that it is fine. Most of them were from the US some from England. So I am puzzled why you think they are not ok.

3) I still would like to know the difference between them.
Nobody has said that the second one is wrong. It is the only one which is correct. I'm afraid that the Irish person you mention was not using correct English. Not all native speakers speak good English all the time.
 

Kotfor

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Oh, sorry, I meant the second one which was admitted to be not perfectly correct i.e. the third one. What about all the examples I have provided (post 7), are they also wrong?
 

5jj

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1) As for the first sentence. I am surprised to realize that you find it incorrect. Why do I think it is correct? Because this sentence was presented, so to speak, by a native speaker from Ireland. He is very much into English.
Fine - accept his opinion. If he is 'very much into' English, then I will stay out of it.

2) As for the [STRIKE]second[/STRIKE] third one. I am also surprised to know that you think it is not perfectly fine. I would realy like to know why you think so. A few native speakers confirmed that it is fine. Most of them were from the US some from England. So I am puzzled why you think they are not ok.
If you are happy that this is 'perfectly fine', then stick with it, and don't worry about my views.

3) I still would like to know the difference between them.
Ask the native speaker who is so much into English.
5
 

Kotfor

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To tell you the truth I don't care who is right or wrong:) I just want to know why there are such drastically different views on this matter. I think you would be puzzled not less than I am if came across the same situation with, say, Russian for instance.

Plus the examples from post 7 also say that this construction is possible. I don't know what to think....... It is very odd.
 

bhaisahab

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Oh, sorry, I meant the second one which was admitted to be not perfectly correct i.e. the third one. What about all the examples I have provided (post 7), are they also wrong?
Yes, they are wrong.
 

Kotfor

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Thank you, bhaisahab

One more thing. If you say that this one is also wrong then I won't ask you again.


Last week was the first time we have had snow in years. (Taken from a grammar book)
 

Barb_D

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I too find all of the example in #7 wrong.

Perhaps this is an American thing, but I don't find example #3 in the first post to be "very" wrong. My instinct is to use the past perfect (since it's clear that there were subequent past actions when it was viewed again), but I don't find simple past as wrong as you all seem to.

I have no problem with the "have" in the snow example because if the snow is still on the ground a few days later, there is a clear link to the present. Last week is recent enough to connect to the present situation.
 

Kotfor

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I too find all of the example in #7 wrong.

Perhaps this is an American thing, but I don't find example #3 in the first post to be "very" wrong.

Isn't it strange that all these authors should make the same mistake? It's very strange to say the least.
 

Barb_D

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If you look for examples of people saying "I seen it" you'll find more than you ever want to read.

I don't find any grammar error odd. Some just grate on the ears more than others. Your examples aren't nearly as horrific to me as "I seen it," or, for that matter, "very unique."
 

Kotfor

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Agree.

As you see this sentence is ok to your mind

Last week was the first time we have had snow in years.

I just see that this sentence basically resembles this one

That was the first time we have had snow (in years).

They are the same.
 

Barb_D

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"Last week" gives you a connection to the present that "That" does not.
 
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Kotfor

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Barb_D,
I see it this way

last week - that was - past simple
this week - this is - present perfect

Thank you. I think I understand this confusing issue.
 

engee30

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Agree.

As you see this sentence is ok to your mind

Last week was the first time we have had snow in years. :tick:
I just see that this sentence basically resembles this one

That was the first time we have had snow (in years). :cross:

They are the same.

♥♦♣♠ NOT A TEACHER ♥♦♣♠
Look at these two sentences, Kotfor:
Last week was the first time... + present perfect
vs
Last week, it was the first time... + past perfect

There's a difference between the two which makes using the present perfect valid in one sentence, and invalid in the other.
 
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